The whole farce of the 1st session.... ther has to be another way~!!!!

ralf fan · 10 Jul 2004, 14:28 (Ref:1032439)

IN all the years ive seen f1 ive never seen cArs trying to go slower than each other!!! i thought this wasracing and the fastest guy wins not the slowest!

You cant blame the teams for doing what they thopught is the best for the team.. rather i want to blame Bernie...
there has to be another way to select the runners for the single lap... last year i felt was better with the session on Fri..
noone seems interested at all for the 1st session...
so you guys for one sec pretend you are Bernie and make suggestions for a new quly system or a differnet way to select the running order...(pls post sensible ideas)

Gt_R · 10 Jul 2004, 14:35 (Ref:1032444)

Don't bother..this qualifying format is set to change (again) soon.

**Peter Mallett** · 10 Jul 2004, 15:05 (Ref:1032466)

As I said in the qualifying thread. An apt example of why (if they're going to stick with one-shot) they should base the grid on the average time from both sessions.

300kph · 10 Jul 2004, 16:02 (Ref:1032496)

Or maybe the timing system they are using in the slalom-ski-racing...

BootsOntheSide · 10 Jul 2004, 16:35 (Ref:1032513)

Using the average time of the two sessions is a good idea. Notice that it would affect strategies in general, because only half the qualifying time would be affected by their race fuel settings - encouraging teams to make less pitstops.

In World Superbikes (where the basic one-shot system originates) tehy revert to a 1-hout 12-lap session if it's wet, and maybe F1 needs to.

Still, the consolation on this occasiona was that the teams who tried to go slowly lost out in sesison 2 by having to run early.

paddy · 10 Jul 2004, 16:42 (Ref:1032515)

Adding both sessions together is a good idea. The first session should be free, as now, with parc ferme after session 2. The fastest driver in session 1 should be able to choose when he goes out in session 2. Each subsequent driver would would then choose in order of speed.
The teams would then need a set up for max speed in quali 1 that could be changed to race spec for quali 2.
The driver with the fastest aggregate time would be on pole.

Kicking-back · 10 Jul 2004, 16:54 (Ref:1032522)

Aggregate times is nonsense, in my opinion.

Pole should be about the single fastest lap.

Just scrap the first session, and have the single one-shot qualifying.

**Aysedasi** · 10 Jul 2004, 17:30 (Ref:1032545)

I agree the single fastest lap idea. I don't agree with aggregates. But I don't see why it has to be single-shot qualifying. Qualifying sessions were much more exciting a few years back when every had 3-4 runs. In fact, if it were up to me, I'd go back to the open hour, as many laps as you like.

300kph · 10 Jul 2004, 18:11 (Ref:1032567)

Quote:

Originally posted by Aysedasi
I agree the single fastest lap idea. I don't agree with aggregates. But I don't see why it has to be single-shot qualifying. Qualifying sessions were much more exciting a few years back when every had 3-4 runs. In fact, if it were up to me, I'd go back to the open hour, as many laps as you like.

I presume you favor the old system which was proven better than the present system but if there's one to better the old and the present, it sure not be the single fastest lap idea, Imo...

But I might be wrong.

Don K · 10 Jul 2004, 18:21 (Ref:1032575)

One possible way to improve the current system, would be to allow each driver to choose his slot in the second session.

So the driver who was fastest in session one would get first choice, the second fastest driver would get second choice, etc.
Of course that would mean there had to be more time between the two sessions. Which would probably mean that no TV station would be willing to broadcast both sessions.

-------------

Another option would be to let each driver choose (in secret) between driving early or driving late in the second seaaion, at the start of the first session.
So the driver who was fastest in seeion one would start either first or last in the second session, the second fastest driver would start either first/second, or last/second last, etc.
That way the starting order for session two would be known immediately after the end of the first session.

------------------------

I would prefer a system with a single one hour qualifying session (12 laps per driver), with an obligation to run at least 3 laps in the first 20 minutes and at least 3 laps in the second 20 minutes.

**Peter Mallett** · 10 Jul 2004, 23:21 (Ref:1032708)

Actually the original Friday, one-hour as many laps as you can and the Saturday one-hour as many laps as you can, free engine changes, manual gearboxes, no traction control, balls to the wall racing would be the best. But that's too flaming difficult for the short concentration span, numpties who control F1 these days.

So give em two hot laps and average them. It means that both laps are of equal importance.

ASCII Man · 10 Jul 2004, 23:29 (Ref:1032710)

Quote:

Originally posted by ralf fan
You cant blame the teams for doing what they thought is the best for the team.. rather i want to blame Bernie...

I do blame the teams, since they had the chance to change the format last week but rejected it.
Even though the proposed format was far from ideal it sure would've prevented a farce like that!

**Peter Mallett** · 10 Jul 2004, 23:31 (Ref:1032712)

ASCII. For once, (but only once

) you are right.

ASCII Man · 10 Jul 2004, 23:38 (Ref:1032717)

Wow, do i get a medal for this achievement??

**Peter Mallett** · 10 Jul 2004, 23:39 (Ref:1032718)

Don't push yer luck.

mac · 11 Jul 2004, 07:33 (Ref:1032858)

Quote:

Originally posted by ASCII Man
I do blame the teams, since they had the chance to change the format last week but rejected it.

They were right to reject it. The format should remain consistent for the entirety of the season. The teams have often openly stated that they don't like the format, but for the purpose of fairness it will stay for this year.

Doesn't mean it's not a totally ridiculous system though.

I'm a huge fan of the single lap qualifying, but I think running order should just go off overall practice times from every practice session over the weekend. Nothing controversial about that, and perfectly simple to apply.

Skam85 · 11 Jul 2004, 07:49 (Ref:1032865)

One quailfying run, the order of the last race deeming the quali running order. Can put as many or as little fuel as they wish, not like they have now, where they have to run race fuel.

spanner · 11 Jul 2004, 08:57 (Ref:1032882)

Though thats not exactly why they didnt change qualifying. In this delicate climate the lesser teams wouldnt be guaranteed exposure, which was the reason why it was changed in the first place!
Though i really hate the whole race fuel, parc ferme rules i think they should change

hamsmith · 11 Jul 2004, 09:33 (Ref:1032894)

Although the second session was a let down i thought it made the second session intresting to watch, waiting to see if the tactics actually worked. it was one of the first times this year i've actually sat and watched the quali instead of just having it on in the background.

Schummy · 11 Jul 2004, 10:38 (Ref:1032919)

Usually I find qualifying more interesting than races (old format or new format).

I like the idea of drivers choosing positions for 2nd session according to 1st session. It would do rational the proceeding.

The problem I have with the old format 12-lap or unlimited laps 1-hour session, is usually TV directors don't make a good job following hot laps. And we cannot see laps that overlap (it happens all the time in the last minutes). So, I tended to get less action in old format that in new format.

Although the fight for pole is the most important factor, I like to see the lesser teams/drivers and know how they are doing. Some of the perfomances by Heidfeld, Fisichella, Webber, etc are as good or even better than the top classified.

I have to admit that the old format works in FIM bikes GPs, but

1) until the last part of the sessions the action is scarce and (2) somehow TV does a better job following laps, and the info-on-screen system is better that the ageing one in F1.

Averaging the two one-lap sessions would be interesting in my particular way of view it. One with empty tanks, and one with "strategic" tanks. Sessions last about 40-45 mins each one, so a complete qualifying would be as a soccer match

in saturday noon time, what is not a so hot TV time in schedules.

johnh875 · 11 Jul 2004, 11:50 (Ref:1032969)

The 1st session brought back memories of Carlos Sainz being penalised in Rally Australia a couple of years ago, when nobody wanted to be in the lead going into the final day and have to sweep the roads.

How about a combination of the old and current system - 1st session 1-hour unlimited laps, then have 1 lap each in a shootout format. It does place a lot of pressure but it works. I think having the cars do at least the final qualifying run as they start the race has worked well.

The running order could be anything really, I don't think it matters so long as we cannot have a repeat of what happened yesterday. Three possibilities I can come up with off the top of my head are: current championship order, finishing order from last race, and fastest lap recorded all weekend (they have to do fast laps some time!).

JAG · 11 Jul 2004, 14:14 (Ref:1033073)

The following quote sums up F1s current attitude to the fans perfectly!

'But McLaren's pole-winner Raikkonen said: "The teams are not too worried if it's good for the spectators.

"We are trying to do the best we can and unfortunately it's not always the best thing for the spectators. We can do what we want."'

Stuart Hill · 11 Jul 2004, 14:25 (Ref:1033082)

Why not just draw lots as to when you qualify?

All teams get same coverage...
Additional coverage for drivers.. as they draw their number...
Changeable weather would add some spice...
Good drivers would still be fastest...
TV/Circuit viewers would get better show....

downsides please????

Mekola · 11 Jul 2004, 14:34 (Ref:1033094)

I like the one-lap qualy sistem, despite the current 2-hour qualy system is boring and I prefer for miles the one used in 2003.
Then I propose, to make the sessions more exciting, scrap the pre-qualify of Saturday and use the Friday practice time sessions instead. Then, the fastest driver on Friday is the last to qualify on Saturday.

climb · 12 Jul 2004, 15:31 (Ref:1034317)

Quote:

Originally posted by crazystu
Why not just draw lots as to when you qualify?

All teams get same coverage...
Additional coverage for drivers.. as they draw their number...
Changeable weather would add some spice...
Good drivers would still be fastest...
TV/Circuit viewers would get better show....

downsides please????

you beat me to it crazystu!

a drawing procedure would be way more interesting to watch, just a few minutes and go.

This way there would be no risk of seeing what happened at Silv, and the qual session would be entirely interesting, not only the last 10 qualifiers.

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