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19 Aug 2004, 05:28 (Ref:1071140) | #1 | ||
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Carbon Rims?
Any reason why the ACO LMP's don't use carbon fiber wheels? There illegal on the DP's but from skimming the ACO rules i couldn't find any disclamer saying their not legal on the LMP1's.
Are the to expensive to justify a small weight advatage or just to fragile? |
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19 Aug 2004, 05:37 (Ref:1071146) | #2 | ||
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Too fragile. They don't bend they just break!
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19 Aug 2004, 06:43 (Ref:1071173) | #3 | ||
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It just came to mind as i was watching the cycling trials going on at the Olympics. A bunch of teams where useing carbon wheels. I would think with the right weave and resin someone should be able to build some decent carbon rims nowadays.
Didn't some of the GTP/Group C cars run them back in the day? |
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19 Aug 2004, 07:49 (Ref:1071212) | #4 | ||
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The trouble with carbon in that manner is that it fatigues a lot quicker than metal, without any visible signs. If a driver bounces off of a kerb (or even has to high a sid loading), they could very easily put hairline cracks through the whole structure resulting in a massive failure and without any warning.
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19 Aug 2004, 10:58 (Ref:1071386) | #5 | |
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And they are illegal as the ACO rules have minimum corner weights for wheel/tire.
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19 Aug 2004, 13:24 (Ref:1071532) | #6 | ||
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Well, not illegal - more like impractical or illogical.
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20 Aug 2004, 00:26 (Ref:1072146) | #7 | |
Racer
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they just started selling carbon rims for the street here in the states. if they can a f1 car out of them then they can make rims. why dont f1 teams use them. their all carbon crazy.
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20 Aug 2004, 03:06 (Ref:1072218) | #8 | ||
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Maybe there is a reason (other than rules related) that the F1 guys do not use them, such as they found that to get them strong enough, in all directions, they would end up weighing mas much as, or more than their current magnesium rims.
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20 Aug 2004, 05:12 (Ref:1072271) | #9 | ||
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the rules have a minimum density and maximum stiffness for F1 wheels i believe
nsxr- who is sellign carbon rims? our formula team experimented with them but found air leakage a big problem |
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20 Aug 2004, 05:36 (Ref:1072277) | #10 | ||
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I know there is more out there but this is the only company Google could find-
http://www.01designsystem.com/01_home.html Carbon rims are alot more common on super bikes. |
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20 Aug 2004, 11:10 (Ref:1072554) | #11 | ||
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Bikes (Motor and Pedal) do not tend to place as much lateral load on to a wheel as a F1 car cornering at 4+ G.
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20 Aug 2004, 11:35 (Ref:1072578) | #12 | ||
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No one seriously uses them because they don't bend, they just go bang. Let me put that in to action. A driver bangs wheels with another car. If the rim is made of a malleable metal, the rim is dented and at worst the bead may lose integrity and the tyre deflates. Usually slowly. The car pits, the wheel is changed, and life goes on.
A carbon rim, when it's yeild is reached, will crack or even worse, shatter with a very high likelihood of the car losing a wheel or at least deflating a tyre in a big hurry. Either way, the car will be lucky to not end up in a crash barrier or gravel trap, let alone get back to the pits. Anyone who uses a carbon rim on a street car deserves what they get. |
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20 Aug 2004, 13:06 (Ref:1072678) | #13 | ||
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I have had a look at the specifications in the website address above, and from reading it, it sounds like they are not actually carbon wheels, but alloy wheels with cosmetic carbon covers over the alloy spiders (center section and spokes)
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20 Aug 2004, 20:29 (Ref:1073150) | #14 | ||
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If carbon tubs are strong enough to take the load/vibration and shock of the syspension mounts theres no reason someone can't make carbon rims that can take the forces the tires excert on the rim.
The more i read the more it appears that they arn't used cause most series don't allow them.... |
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20 Aug 2004, 21:57 (Ref:1073243) | #15 | ||
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Quote:
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20 Aug 2004, 22:48 (Ref:1073278) | #16 | ||
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But if thats the case why bother makeing carbon tubs, why not stick with Alloy?
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20 Aug 2004, 23:23 (Ref:1073299) | #17 | ||
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Quote:
Imagine a Carbon wheel hitting a piece of debris at 200mph and shattering like a carbon wing! Last edited by JAG; 20 Aug 2004 at 23:24. |
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21 Aug 2004, 16:13 (Ref:1073707) | #18 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Carbon tubs aren't directly hit by anything directly (the dampers take any shock) - they only take the forces of connering , Acceleration and decelleration, whereas a wheel would take a constant battering
bf1 |
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21 Aug 2004, 19:02 (Ref:1073802) | #19 | ||
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Carbon NO Kevlar Possible
Ok then just to add to this abit carbon might shatter if hit or bent but why not use Kevlar then this stuff is very tough used to make bullet proof vests. Or a Carbon Kevlar mix that is what is used in Carbon chassis so they dont just shatter makes the structure very tough.
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21 Aug 2004, 21:15 (Ref:1073898) | #20 | |||
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Quote:
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24 Aug 2004, 20:40 (Ref:1076469) | #21 | ||
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They would also take a long time to lay up, so pushing the cost up even more.
Carbon is also slightly porous so would need to be coated to stop air escaping. |
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24 Aug 2004, 22:23 (Ref:1076576) | #22 | ||
Racer
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The formula student cars use carbon rims!
One problem with carbon is the fatigue problem, the characteristics of this is still not known. Also the impact characteristics are uncontrollable. The problem with Kevlar/Carbon hybrid is that Kevlar attracts water, which has different expansion characteristics. When getting those under temperature variations those wheels will crack. As for the lay up time there are not many problems, the labour cost's are relatively low compared to the material cost's, |
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