Honda, BMW and Mercedes -2.4's for 2006

[Marbot]

Honda and BMW have decided not to take legal action against the FIA,which leaves just Mercedes holding out for V10's.Read at www.grandprix.com

[Kempi]

Interesting, I read the same story today on a German F1-Newssite. Only it was the other way round, Mercedes pulling back and BMW and Honda sticking.

What is the truth now?

[Kicking-back]

Autosport reports Mercedes have dropped their arbitration plans too.

So it seems to have all been much of a fuss about nothing.

[ss_collins]

single engine spec - I think F1 suffers cos of that, sure set a 2.4 limit but let all 4 cycle engine configs be run, V6, V8, V10, V12 etc, let boxers in too after all running a flat 8 could lower the cars CofG leaving the exhausts to exit centrally.

F1 used to be all about innovation and Walrus aside we seem to have a bunch of identical racecars.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by ss_collins

single engine spec - I think F1 suffers cos of that, sure set a 2.4 limit but let all 4 cycle engine configs be run, V6, V8, V10, V12 etc, let boxers in too after all running a flat 8 could lower the cars CofG leaving the exhausts to exit centrally.

F1 used to be all about innovation and Walrus aside we seem to have a bunch of identical racecars.

Identical yes,equal no,they may look identical but some are more equal than others.

[Adam43]

Acording to Autosport.com Honda and BMW have decided to join Mercedes and stop arbitration.

So 2.4l are going to happen. I must admit I am surprised they have all agreed. I wonder how that happened?

Admin note: Title changed to reflect that

[RWC]

Grandprix.com says that as no one is talking about it then it was probably a bloody meeting. i.e-if it was all polite they would have pres conferences about it...
Maybe they have a point,maybe not. In any case it's obvious some consessions were made by somebody-allmost certainly max
Does it make much difference? Not alot really.It just adds to the status quo (instead of f1 making the huge changes nessesary,it's going along with maxes constant ,allmost pointless little rule changes)

[Sodemo]

NOOOOooo!

I don't want to lose the V-10 sound!

Weve lost nearly everything else I love from F1 : Sparks, Slicks, overtaking and now the classic V10 wail...

[Kicking-back]

"The classic V10" only dates back to 1989.

F1 has a long history without them.

[Super Tourer]

Reading the reports it looks like a financial decision.

If the teams had gone to arbitration they would have been faced with the cost of continual development and testing of V10 engines and the design, build, development and test costs of building 2.4 V8's - should the case go against them.

There may of course have been some FIA concessions that will become apparant at a later date. In anyevent the quote from BMW (on the legal action) is surely one Max will want framed on his wall.

"That would not be in the interests of the sport, whose future we aim to strengthen. With this decision we want to contribute to a united position of the engine manufacturers in Formula 1."

[Red]

Originally Posted by Super Tourer

Reading the reports it looks like a financial decision.

If the teams had gone to arbitration they would have been faced with the cost of continual development and testing of V10 engines and the design, build, development and test costs of building 2.4 V8's - should the case go against them.

I don't buy that. They will have 2 development programs next year anyway.

[Super Tourer]

Originally Posted by Red

I don't buy that. They will have 2 development programs next year anyway.

Not for the entire year, once their final stepped development on the 2005 V10's is over, it will be pure development on the V8's. It should save up to 6 months development costs, spread across the last qtr of 2005 and 1st qtr of 2006.

If it had been the case that legal wrangling dragged on throughout 2005 making it a late verdict on whether it was either V8 or V10 for 2006, it would have required full time development on both.

Now 2006 is a known format the engineers can work their programs accordingly.

However, I agree there may be more to it than meets the eye, 'presenting a united front for the good of the sport' has never been that high on the agenda recently. Indeed, BMW and Honda were still sabre rattling up until fairly recently claiming they 'may pull out' if V8's were introduced. Maybe in the fullness of time it will become clearer.

Perhaps it is as simple as an overall cost saving , added to which the potential legal costs could be vast. (bearing in mind that the Williams cost over the Button CRB case were £500K alone)

[Red]

The final stepped development usually happens with 2 max 3 races to go. Unless they run a parallel and totally different and revollutionary V10 programme for next. And yes, the "good of the sport" part stinks on ice.

The costs isn't an issue. They do have a budget, and they will spend it no matter how and ask for more. What I actually think is more logical, is that all of the aforementioned engine manufacturers think that they will guess better and get an edge over the others as a result of those rule changes. Good of sport, cost cutting... pfft.

[Kicking-back]

Peace and common sense seem to be breaking out across the sport.

Don't be surprised if this agreement goes along with a Bernie deal to increase revenue distribution to the teams.

[Marbot]

Yes,he could give $400 million to Minardi,down to 2 cents for Ferrari.

[RWC]

Originally Posted by The Monster

NOOOOooo!

I don't want to lose the V-10 sound!

Weve lost nearly everything else I love from F1 : Sparks, Slicks, overtaking and now the classic V10 wail...

I don't think we have too much to worry about.
V10's are actually the most characterless engines ever! It's only pure revs that give them any feeling (except for the awsome wailing/screaming exaust of the 99/-01? maclarens)

V8's can be the best engine sound ever made if done just right.I don't think we'll get that lucky though.
High reving 8's tend to lose alot of character as revs go way up....or thats' how it was years back in f1.
Still we might get lucky,it is uncharted waters after all,the last f1 V8 engines maxed out at about 15500 rpm

[Dick Spanner]

Can't help wondering if Renault's wide angle concept would work better as an V8.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Dick Spanner

Can't help wondering if Renault's wide angle concept would work better as an V8.

All engines for 2006(unless a team wants to run a restricted V10)must have a 90 degree V angle.

[Dick Spanner]

Originally Posted by martyn bott

All engines for 2006(unless a team wants to run a restricted V10)must have a 90 degree V angle.

And the innovation? Actually I probably should have censored "innovation"

[Kicking-back]

Innovation costs money, they're trying to cut costs.

Anyway, the teams and engine-manufacturers have agreed the rules now, so it's a moot point.

[Marbot]

I wonder which teams will take the V10 route,certainly i think Minardi would and they will be spoilt for choice as all the engine manufacturers will be falling over themselves to sell there unwanted V10's,perhaps a Minardi-Ferrari for 2006.
By the way there are more restrictive regulations as regards engines for 2006,such as a limit to cylinder bore,minimum weight and so on.

[cosworth BDG]

The actual build costs between a v8 & a v10 at the top end of motorsport is not very different ,really all the costs involved are in the research & development of both units & the economy of scale in the production of the units & the life attained between rebuilds of the engines in service.