Teams CHEATING or VESC Bias

HDTLE · 2 Mar 2006, 00:20 (Ref:1534287)

PLEASE NOTE: This is not a basing thread for Teams or anybody else, but a discussion to understand the logic behind the decisions made by people/body for the benefit of the supporters of this sport !!
NOTE: WIthout supporters there is no sport and the Teams/VESC have no jobs !

Now how many people dont understand the following:

Why are FPR & Britek (Fujisu Racing) groped together for testing?

OK because there is a link between FPR driver (JB) and Britek team owner (JB) but

Why are HRT & HSVDT not group together ?

They have drivers who are brothers in both teams and DAD also owns one Team !!

Why are SCAR & Tasman not group together ?

GM one driver and DAD owner of other Team?

Why are HRT, HSVDT & SCAR not group together ?

All race for HMS and sponsered by HSV, use the same equipment - Dencar, HMS motor's, etc?

Why are DJR not restricted for testing ?

They have two main game BA's and three Fujisui Series cars (2 BA's 1 AU)

Now just to clear this up I am a true blue Holden Fan !!

IMHO i dont want HMS broken up, that should stay, as it is good for HOLDEN and thats what matters for me as a supporter, but why cant it be the same for other teams ? More competetion means better sport !

I do think that each Team & Driver(s) i.e. HRT, HSVDT, etc dont want to be second best just because they are under a bigger banner. It doesn't stop the want to win. Remember if they don't like it they will leave for another team. i.e. Craig L, Jason B, James C etc

Also FORD have won the last Three championships with a small team SBR? So it can be done both ways - more credit to SBR for what they have done ! But it doesn't discount HRT's success either or that HOLDEN are still the best !!

Sorry for the big post, but I feel for the sport and teams but will always love the General and hate FORD in sporting terms?

What do u think??

TSR · 2 Mar 2006, 00:33 (Ref:1534290)

You could be opening a BIG can here of team & driver bashing.

But I agree with a couple of your opions and something should be done by the governing body.

Rowdy · 2 Mar 2006, 00:46 (Ref:1534292)

Good post. But sorry I cannot explain the logic behind those decisions, If anybody can they are either a genius or just totally insane

HDTLE · 2 Mar 2006, 00:47 (Ref:1534293)

Not the Teams fault or drivers ! Remember everybody wants to win, including the supportors ! But we all wont to win aganist tough and fair opposition !!

Pirtek_Falcon-1 · 2 Mar 2006, 00:59 (Ref:1534299)

You make some excellent points. Id love to see the governing body explain all this for us.

HRT433 · 2 Mar 2006, 01:02 (Ref:1534301)

its all very interesting, an a lot of the times very confusing as well.

The grouping of Britek and FPR is fair enough because the DRIVER (Bright) of one team OWNS other other.

This is much different to having brothers in two different teams, or having on drivers DAD owning another team.

Like you have said its not the driver's or team's fault, most driver's drive for who wants them (or who has the bigger chequebook), if this means they are not driving for Daddy's team, then so be it, doesn't mean they will share info, because like you said everyone wants to win, and giving other teams a hand doesn't make that any easier.

The DJR situation, which has been discussed in another thread, must be due to him finding a loop hole of some sort in the rules.

In the end I don't really care what links are between teams, I would have no problem if they let Britek test, it couldn't hurt, and FPR could do with the extra data.....

buza · 2 Mar 2006, 01:05 (Ref:1534304)

I'd like them to answer the question why do they even have the "Stupid" grouping rule?

RotorFan · 2 Mar 2006, 01:08 (Ref:1534306)

By that logic, maybe BJR and GRM should have been grouped when Andrew Jones was driving for GRM.

Skippy1976 · 2 Mar 2006, 01:13 (Ref:1534307)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotorFan

By that logic, maybe BJR and GRM should have been grouped when Andrew Jones was driving for GRM.

And now driving for Tasman....

Red and Blue data dont mix though ! Purple data isnt any good to anyone

but i am sure they could maybe chat about tyre wear etc or setup tricks for certain tracks... but do you really think they would want to help each others teams get faster..... nup!

silvervsix · 2 Mar 2006, 01:16 (Ref:1534308)

Good post, alot of questions that the common man asks and only a select few can give the correct answer, i am not one of those select few.

Rombles1 · 2 Mar 2006, 01:52 (Ref:1534317)

Ditto Marcus Marshall - driving a Ford, but Daddy appears to be buying into a Holden team... so now we could group PCR, SCAR, TASMAN, BJR all into one bunch...

HDTLE · 2 Mar 2006, 02:42 (Ref:1534326)

If we don't believe brothers will share info, etc or father and son wont for some reason or at least have a discussion?? Arrrr Maybe competetion !!

Then why do we think a driver is going to with a team he owns but does not driver for?? It would seem that the first statement is not true (as per ruling) so I would believe very unlikely for part 2 to happen !! Doesn't run either team!!

Can we get enough support to have this rulling overturned and FPR/Britek back testing fairly. Because lets face it FPR need all the help they can get! It would be for the better. FORD factory team gets results. Remember only good will be for FORD fans which I wouldn't like but would be good for the sport !!

storyline · 2 Mar 2006, 04:20 (Ref:1534348)

V8SA have replied to your post, and provided the following explanations as to why they have, and haven't, grouped teams:

Quote:

Obviously this would explain a lot!

Pirtek_Falcon-1 · 2 Mar 2006, 05:32 (Ref:1534368)

Anyone with a connection has the POTENTIAL to pass on information.

dsg · 2 Mar 2006, 05:33 (Ref:1534369)

I believe the decision by VESA is quite logical.

Being a driver and an opposing team owner is a conflict of interest. All the other people are related but don't hold dual roles. To group all relatives under this rule is guilt by association.

HDTLE · 2 Mar 2006, 09:40 (Ref:1534501)

but is this good for the sport? I want to see all teams competitive not just 6 !!

F J Nedos · 2 Mar 2006, 10:12 (Ref:1534532)

Most of this is simply based on testing restrictions.

So the simple way around it all is to have something like 1 testing day a month which all teams can attend. This would be the only means of testing, and it could be suprvised by cams if necessary.

They all test, they all go home. They can swap data if they like. Heck there is just much chance of data swapping or information sharing going on now, so why block it? If they really want to do it, they will.

The test days can be at a track the following monday or tuesday of a race meeting, to negate costs of travel etc.

WebberForWDC · 2 Mar 2006, 11:43 (Ref:1534594)

Wouldn't it be most fair to give Race winners 6 days, More than one podium 10 days, One podium or less 14 days etc, and reserve the right to give people no test days when HRT try to do the buy the Britek licenses shuffle....

Based on race results not championship positions should rightly give HRT, HSVDT, Perkins, SBR, 888, etc. bugger all test days, but rightly still give GRM etc. lots of days even when they're in the overall top 10.

storyline · 2 Mar 2006, 11:47 (Ref:1534596)

It can be argued, just as easily, that maybe test days should go to those without wins or podiums as they would be the ones suffering under WFWDC's proposal.

lookleft · 2 Mar 2006, 12:52 (Ref:1534639)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dsg

I believe the decision by VESA is quite logical.

Being a driver and an opposing team owner is a conflict of interest. All the other people are related but don't hold dual roles. To group all relatives under this rule is guilt by association.

So... if GTRMagic were to turn up a company change for Britek which saw NotSo relinquish ownership to Mrs NotSo or Daddy NotSo all would be okay?

**GTRMagic** · 2 Mar 2006, 12:52 (Ref:1534640)

Quote:

Originally Posted by storyline

It can be argued, just as easily, that maybe test days should go to those without wins or podiums as they would be the ones suffering under WFWDC's proposal.

It doesnt work like that. The smartybums with the wins and podiums will just spend money on simulation software, or a shaker rig or some other technical means of simularing on-track testing

So make it harder to do that... make a race meeting every 2 weeks, a TEGA official test on the Thursday of a race meeting... and there should be no fiddling and fuddling

Back to the original post's point... the geniuses at TEGA have interpreted the rules with no shame to mean that if you own a team and drive for someone else, you are automatically handing over setup input... and therefore are grouped to reduce the number of test days

But brothers dont talk, nor do fathers and sons, in crew, driving staff or any other capacity. Apparently.

Nor do any errant flash sticks with MoTeC or Pi data on them every cross the boundaries of other teams... very tightly controlled all of that....

HDTLE · 2 Mar 2006, 22:08 (Ref:1534962)

well said GTRMagic !!
I like the testing suggestion(s)

mac · 2 Mar 2006, 22:35 (Ref:1534983)

It seems to me that Britek and Jason Bright are copping the rough end of the stick for being totally upfront and honest regarding the ownership and various machinations surrounding the team.

While similar issues at other teams are somewhat more foggy.

The VESA stance does nothing to prevent such fogginess and only really encourages more.

HDTLE · 2 Mar 2006, 22:47 (Ref:1534994)

It is going to leave a bad taste in the mouth if any of the mentioned teams win races this season !!
Or thou their are those who say this creates fans based on the underdog theory ??

lookleft · 3 Mar 2006, 02:04 (Ref:1535088)

It's actually an interesting topic. HDTLE, why don't you tidy it up and send to the the various motorsport publications, newpapers etc as a question. Chances are most of it is already typed up (hello to all our "news reporters" lurking)....

Too much swept under the carpet these days. Needs it own thread but I suspect we are closer to the end of the V8Supercar era than the beginning.

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