What should new CC specs be?

[Amar7605]

Looking at all of the treads so far, there are a lot that are based on stressing out over what's gonna happen this season. So, I thought that I would have a little fun and throw something out there for all of you.

If CC changes the specs on the cars, what would you want to change? What would you want to stay the same?

I personally would like to see better, more F1-style braking. That and better corner handling.

[macdaddy]

IMO, the cars are beautiful just the way they are!
Just keep 'em turbocharged and running on slicks!

[Kicking-back]

I'd ask Lola to make another batch of its A1Gp cars - they'd be ideal.

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by macdaddy

IMO, the cars are beautiful just the way they are!
Just keep 'em turbocharged and running on slicks!

Hear hear!

[carsten66]

Originally Posted by macdaddy

IMO, the cars are beautiful just the way they are!
Just keep 'em turbocharged and running on slicks!

... I agree absolutely

perhaps 50 or 100 hp more...

[Snrub]

Make them cheaper.

Update the general "roundish" shape to a more angular one, which generally speaking is suppose to be more aerodynamically efficient. If there is going to be a single chasis supplier then I don't see anything wrong with compromising speed with attactiveness to some degree.

I think it's important to keep the venturi tunnels and not increase grip through increase wings. I think the power is at the right level.

Why not make the engines last even longer to reduce costs? These engines weren't designed from the ground up to last a long time, but the new ones could be. I like the idea of moving to ethanol to promote it, or sticking with methanol.

I like the steel brakes, while less visually impressive it lends itself to more driver involvement and drivers passing under braking.

Also, there has been talk of a lighter chasis. This makes me a bit nervous. Actually it was interesting to see on SpeedTV's Bahrain GP coverage Peter Windsor did a peice on F1 safety. There is a structure on the back of the cars that is required to withstand a 1700lbs impact @ 27mph. The side is required to have a similar strength. Remember back to your highschool physics class: Energy = (mass x velocity^2) / 2. Think about for a minute, the energy goes up exponentially with speed. We're talking about cars going something like 160-180mph at Monaco inches from concrete walls. Does that sound safe? The point: I think that F1 has done a very good job with track design to increase safety. The IRL is doing a terrific job with the safer barrier. I think CC should lead the way with the safety for the design of the cars. I think it would be great to see the risk reduced for drivers. CC can have more control over the final chasis, so why do this? Why not aim for no more injuries? It's probably impossible, but why not try?

[codename_47]

Yeah, we need some hard to master cars that are racy and don't fall back by about 10 seconds when they encounter the aero wake of another car....

So.....powerful, racy cars that can follow each other closely.....should be easy, no?

[jjspierx]

Defintely more power. I think 850hp is a good number to shoot for. They need to differentiate themselves from the other forumula series that are starting to have 400-700hp. Champcar needs to clearly be above that. More mechanical grip too. The Bridgestone tires are just too hard. Bridgestone needs to make grippier tires that fade away at the end of a stint especially when a driver overdrives and overheats them. It will make for more passing and close racing. I think the cars are bit too big. They should weight a bit less and have a shorter track, maybe slightly shorter wheelbase too. The steel brakes are fine, I wouldn't have a problem if they switched to carbon brakes, but it would probably raise costs.

[macdaddy]

I guess that, as the courses get narrower, so should the cars. And those are good points about tire-wear and relative power, jj.

[sr230772]

850 hp i think stick with package they got now and develop a longer life eingine thats got more power mid range to suit street racing as for a narrower chassis i agree they could knock a bit off the length too

[mountainstar]

I suspect the "new" champcar will look much like the Lola A1 GP car. And after seeing the A1 car run I don't think that would be a bad thing.

[luke]

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

I'd ask Lola to make another batch of its A1Gp cars - they'd be ideal.

The A1GP cars are ugly IMO, and they would be a lot slower than the modern day Champ Cars.
I like the way Champ Cars are.

[Snrub]

The tire issue is a tough one. If they went too soft then I could see a F1 like situation coming about where everyone doddles around @ 80%. Soft tires would increase mechanical grip and probably produce more passing if everyone pushes. Soft tires could create a bad marble situation, which seems to be a bigger problem on street course, which as was pointed out relating to the car size issue, is the way the series is going. I guess the real question is, would bridgestone be willing to do the R&D to reduce the compromises without increasing the costs to the teams?

Regarding the engine power, I agree that having 850hp would be better, but I'd go one further and say 1000hp is even better! I think it would improve the racing and from marketing standpoint it would be great. I'm sure most people have heard the phrase: "Fast, cheap, reliable. Pick any two." I guess the question is, would it be worth the added costs to have the added power? Each engine needs to last multple races to save the teams money and cannot expire.

[jjspierx]

I actually agree with you on powr Snrub, althought I think 900-950 would be more realistic. I just don't think its going to happen as it would cost a lot of money to produce engines that powerful and still be able to maintain their reliability. Right now Champcar is trying to revive itself, and so saving money is more important than more powerful engines right now. I can accept that, and hopefully in a few years we will see more powerful engines.

[mountainstar]

I wouldn't say the new champcar would be the same exactly as the A1 car just similar. The A1 car is easy to work on and maintain which is a plus.

[Amar7605]

I agree with mountainstar. The new car should be a lot easier to maintain. I mean, being what it is CC should try to pave the way in safety and car innovation, such as low-maintainance systems.

Of course, to design such systems costs money, and money is what CC is trying to save right now!

[Teretonga]

If we are goingto a new chassis remeber that such a change will need to be strong enough for an oval but small enough to handle well on a street course.
You want less aero grip and more mechanical grip, easier to work on and mainatain, but also to cost less because the costr of new chassis will hit a lot of teams in the pocket and thats a huge captial cost to every team.
Engine wise a revised Ford Cosworth XF or a development of it that won't cost the earth to run and maintain. You want more power? Make it a turbo.

[manwell]

Originally Posted by Snrub

Regarding the engine power, I agree that having 850hp would be better, but I'd go one further and say 1000hp is even better! I think it would improve the racing and from marketing standpoint it would be great. I'm sure most people have heard the phrase: "Fast, cheap, reliable. Pick any two." I guess the question is, would it be worth the added costs to have the added power? Each engine needs to last multple races to save the teams money and cannot expire.

Yeah..... why not add Nitrous and have the cars making 2000hp.
(insert sarcasm)

There is a reason why the turbos were resticted a few years ago..... the cars were going too fast!!!

Remember the CART race a 2 or 3 ago at the Texas Motor Speedway that had to be cancelled because during practice the drivers were feeling light headed and almost blacking out from the G's they were pulling while going around the oval?
Making the cars faster is only going to cross a few more racetracks off the list that the Champ Cars could have gone to, but wouldnt be able to if speeds were increased due to the same safety fears of drivers blacking out.

Also being that there are a lot of street courses in CART these days there isnt a lot of room for error if you make a mistake, so making the cars even faster would increase the likelyhood of a driver slamming into a concrete barrier at an even faster speed.

Hey, im all for a fast racing and a good specticle, but i think the speeds they travel at the moment are certainly fast enough. I dont want drivers endangering their lives even more so that cars can go 250 along the straight instead of 220, when most people wouldnt even be able to tell the difference.

[Dov]

This bit of news is from Autoweek so you should take it with a grain of salt.

Plans for a new chassis and engine package for 2007 were also announced, but with few details. However, the new car will be approximately the same size and weight as the current hardware, says Champ Car, and definitely will be turbocharged.

[Snrub]

You've got a good point Manwell. I think my "add safety" thoughts would help combat some of those problems. As for the overall speed, 250hp extra would still be a far cry from the lap times F1 is pushing now. They're going psychotically fast. On ovals CC currently reduces the power from 750hp to 700hp. In the past they reduced it as well. I don't think the extra power is about them going 10mph faster at the end of a straight for a visual impact for fans, I think it would make a difference in making the cars more difficult to drive and extending a factor that good drivers use to their advantage (eg. utilizing the power the best).

I really do think having the magic four digit number would be usefull for Champ Car marketing. It's like how they used the 241mph lap at Fontana to say that the series was the fastest on earth. Nascar, F1, IRL, etc. would all have less power than Champ Car. Also, "American" cars have always tended to be more brute force than finese and that's the way people like it. For Champ Car to be an American focused series, they have to give the audience something directed to it.

[jjspierx]

Originally Posted by manwell

Yeah..... why not add Nitrous and have the cars making 2000hp.
(insert sarcasm)

There is a reason why the turbos were resticted a few years ago..... the cars were going too fast!!!

Remember the CART race a 2 or 3 ago at the Texas Motor Speedway that had to be cancelled because during practice the drivers were feeling light headed and almost blacking out from the G's they were pulling while going around the oval?
Making the cars faster is only going to cross a few more racetracks off the list that the Champ Cars could have gone to, but wouldnt be able to if speeds were increased due to the same safety fears of drivers blacking out.

Also being that there are a lot of street courses in CART these days there isnt a lot of room for error if you make a mistake, so making the cars even faster would increase the likelyhood of a driver slamming into a concrete barrier at an even faster speed.

Hey, im all for a fast racing and a good specticle, but i think the speeds they travel at the moment are certainly fast enough. I dont want drivers endangering their lives even more so that cars can go 250 along the straight instead of 220, when most people wouldnt even be able to tell the difference.

The only tracks Champcar goes over 200 at are ovals, and thats only the superspeedways, not even Milwaukee if my memory serves me correct.

The reason Texas was dangerous for the drivers was because of its banking. There are no other tracks like it where you can go SOO fast because of the banking, not because of how long the straights are and how wide of an angle the corners are. There really aren't any other tracks out there that Champcar would have a problem with going faster on. If there are, they would be ovals anyway, and its not exactly like Champcar has a whole lot of them, or plans on getting a whole lot of them on the schedule in the near future.

[Ac.]

Instead of more power, opt for less downforce and reduced braking power. This would result in increased straightline speed and a higher demand on the driver's skill.

Also I hope that the new chassis is similar to the current one. Keeping the look of Champ Car different from F1, A1GP (awful looking imo), and the hideous IRL cars (again, my opinion) is important.

Finally, I'm going to float the idea that we will see two engine manufacturers in the series in 2007. There will be a new set of rules established by CC to prevent the engine lease and factory team mayhem of the past, and I am predicting that Toyota will be back. Yeah I know, that's a long limb I'm on, but what the heck.

[Omega99]

I don't think horsepower is the deciding factor for me. Sound and quality of racing is all that I really care about. Increasing the speed/horsepower will increase cost and decrease safety. Just bump up the revs a touch and send'em out there! Or take the F1-Cosworth from this year, lop off two cylinders, slap on a turbo, turn down the revs a touch to make it last longer.... yeah its not that simple, really.

Lola makes a fine chasis, and I like the look of the A1 car. Maybe a cross between the current champ car and the A1 car would be ideal...

[Robin Plummer]

I would like to see a return to the glory days of 1993-2001. When you had so many manufacturers involved, top drivers that you have actually heard of, loads of teams that have defected to the IRL and loads of competion.

Chasis

Lola
Penske
Reynard
Eagle

Tyres

Firestone
Goodyear

Engines at 1996 spec i.e. 1.62 bar 915bhp approx

Toyota
Honda
Mercedes
Ford
Porsche
Alfa Romeo

I know it's a dream, but I wish it were true.

[Alex Toropov]

i don't care too much about technical stuff like horsepower or weight, but would really like to see future models of champcars like they were since early 90's (indycars then, ok) - pretty wide, long and low chassis, maybe with slightly different dimensions, but same proportions, without many small aerodynamic devices, which are so popular nowadays in f1 and which in my opinion can ruin significantly the appearance of open wheel cars.
if champcars will turn into the twins of irl cars or all the more a1gp cars, i can hardly image, that i shall ever watch them racing - i reckon, i would fully switch to touring cars, gt and nascar racing then. maybe, it's silly to care much about aesthetic side of motor racing, but for me it's quite important.