Mercedes - get your act together

Kicking-back · 7 Oct 2005, 05:31 (Ref:1425986)

Looks like it's happened again

Seems Kimi Raikkonen needs an engine change

Hein · 7 Oct 2005, 05:45 (Ref:1425997)

They really are trying very hard to lose the Constructors title also.

Kicking-back · 7 Oct 2005, 05:53 (Ref:1426000)

Luckily the driver of the 2nd Renault tends to be beatable, even if you start ten places back

Hein · 7 Oct 2005, 05:56 (Ref:1426002)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Luckily the driver of the 2nd Renault tends to be beatable, even if you start ten places back

And I wish I new why! Fisi is a very talented driver (one of the best in my opinion), he just doesn't have any luck. Also does not seem to be trying too hard.

Back on topic, Merc have to get their act together. I would rather give it to them than Flav.

Kicking-back · 7 Oct 2005, 06:01 (Ref:1426006)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hein

And I wish I new why! Fisi is a very talented driver (one of the best in my opinion), he just doesn't have any luck. Also does not seem to be trying too hard.

Lacks mental strength apparently

Hein · 7 Oct 2005, 06:14 (Ref:1426017)

Shame to waste such natural talent.

EHS · 7 Oct 2005, 06:30 (Ref:1426033)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

Looks like it's happened again

Seems Kimi Raikkonen needs an engine change

Has Montoya needed any engine changes this year and been placed ten spots back? Or only Raikonnen?

Hmmmn, strange. You'd think that statistically....

Hein · 7 Oct 2005, 06:46 (Ref:1426043)

When Sato kept blowing up engines he was told that he is to aggresive on the gas. Anybody think that maybe Kimi is the same?

PS - Just a thought, don't bite my head off!

rpolinski · 7 Oct 2005, 06:49 (Ref:1426047)

Maybe a Marshmallow company should approach kimi with personal sponsorship. What a great ad would that make, Kimi sitting at the back of car toasting marshmallows.

Hein · 7 Oct 2005, 06:58 (Ref:1426054)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpolinski

Maybe a Marshmallow company should approach kimi with personal sponsorship. What a great ad would that make, Kimi sitting at the back of car toasting marshmallows.

SpawnyWhippet · 7 Oct 2005, 07:11 (Ref:1426066)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hein

When Sato kept blowing up engines he was told that he is to aggresive on the gas. Anybody think that maybe Kimi is the same?

PS - Just a thought, don't bite my head off!

F1 engines should be even more resistant to this than 'normal' race engines, seeing as 90% of the time the throttle is fully depressed or fully released. If Ilmor cannot bolt together an engine that doesn't fall apart, maybe Mercedes needs to take the job inhouse?

NO1SPECIAL · 7 Oct 2005, 07:13 (Ref:1426068)

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpolinski

Maybe a Marshmallow company should approach kimi with personal sponsorship. What a great ad would that make, Kimi sitting at the back of car toasting marshmallows.

First real laugh of the day. Thanks rpolinski, i can picture it now.

EHS · 7 Oct 2005, 07:25 (Ref:1426083)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hein

When Sato kept blowing up engines he was told that he is too aggressive on the gas. Anybody think that maybe Kimi is the same?

PS - Just a thought, don't bite my head off!

Don't worry, they will.

I didn't want to state the obvious, that's why I left it to you....

Andrew2001 · 7 Oct 2005, 08:07 (Ref:1426107)

The engine section and all componentry nearly costed Mika the '99 title, and did cost him the '00 title. It's costed Kimi the '03 title, and also the '05 title, but for these dismal records on the reliability front, well, if is F1 spelt backwards....

**John Turner** · 7 Oct 2005, 08:11 (Ref:1426110)

Not sure about biting heads off, but wasn't it the media that suggested Sato's over driving was the cause of the various failures. BAR vigourously denied that, saying that despite extensive analysis with telemetry etc, they could find no evidence to suport that view, and were themselves perplexed by the problems visiting Sato.

Kimi certainly drives the wheels off the Mclaren but with so many driver aids and controls, it is difficult to conclude that his driving is the cause of the failures. Afterall, JPM isn't exactly known for his gentility with the machinery either.

EHS · 7 Oct 2005, 08:32 (Ref:1426127)

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Turner

...Kimi certainly drives the wheels off the Mclaren but with so many driver aids and controls, it is difficult to conclude that his driving is the cause of the failures. Afterall, JPM isn't exactly known for his gentility with the machinery either.

So what do you feel accounts for the run of "bad luck" that Raikonnen has, or for that matter Sato compared to Button?

Glen · 7 Oct 2005, 08:39 (Ref:1426138)

If Honda (or Mercedes, whoever) says that the driver can't be harming the engines we might need to take that with a pinch of salt - they aren't readily going to admit that their product is fragile, or admit that they ned to manage the revs and other settings on the engine in many ways in order to achieve the full mileage, which i understand is the case.

Also, ithe interaction between chassis and engine is so tight nowadays that it is feasible that the car itself might be set up very marginal on cooling and therefore make a failure more likely. This is what BMW were effectively claiming in the case of Williams. Overall, I'd say it was more accurate to blame the team as a whole, since these factors should all be taken into account.

sonic · 7 Oct 2005, 08:43 (Ref:1426141)

Dismal.

McLaren don't deserve to win the constructors title. It would be a cruel irony for kimi if they did.

Like Flavio says - Renault could build a motor with 25 extra HP too. but they couldn't guarantee it would last...

If ron and norbert want to hold onto their man they had better get their act together fast.

**chunterer** · 7 Oct 2005, 08:57 (Ref:1426149)

[QUOTE=John Turner
Kimi certainly drives the wheels off the Mclaren but with so many driver aids and controls, it is difficult to conclude that his driving is the cause of the failures. Afterall, JPM isn't exactly known for his gentility with the machinery either.[/QUOTE]

I would pretty much think the same as you John, but it seems the most obvious conclusion. However, if they've been giving Kimi all the new engine bits to maintain a speed advantage witout enough testing then that would be another logical explanation.. some think it's been similar with Fizzi, when Flavio wouldn't risk new bits on Aonso's car, except Fizzi's car has tended to conk out in the races rather than practice and qualy!

EHS · 7 Oct 2005, 09:12 (Ref:1426167)

Quote:

Originally Posted by chunterer

...However, if they've been giving Kimi all the new engine bits to maintain a speed advantage witout enough testing then that would be another logical explanation...

Wouldn't they give the guy who has the best chance of being the WDC the most reliabale bits, and make the motorcyling tennis player the guinea pig on the new parts bin?

**chunterer** · 7 Oct 2005, 09:18 (Ref:1426172)

Well that's what i'd do yes, but all these blow ups are pointing in a certain direction- and it suggests that someone decided earlier in the season to run Kimi's car at a premium - perhaps because they thought that it's the only way to claw back the poins advantage and relates to the overall 'we had nothing to lose' mentality.

Great except that they had a helluva lot to lose!

It's eiither that or he's got someone in his engine team who keeps forgetting to tighten up a few bolts and still as yet hasn't been taken outside and shot!

Sodemo · 7 Oct 2005, 09:40 (Ref:1426182)

I agree, Montoya is known to rape a car during a GP, how many times in the past have we seen Montoya start well up the grid, only for him to have rear tyre problems early in a stint (in past seasons).
Take the 2002 season, Williams' car was well known for absolutely killing its rear tyres after a few laps (this is also why he had so many poles in this season) so all the grip would be used up after 5-7 laps, after which it was oversteer-city.
Montoya's driving style is to oversteer, so this further harmed the tyres.

Maybe Kimi uses the kerbs more and its the vibration which is damaging the engines?

BootsOntheSide · 7 Oct 2005, 10:34 (Ref:1426221)

It really is amazing for this to happen in such quick succession. The likelihood of it al being driver-related seems to be reduced by the number of times it happens very early in ar ace weekend - maybe Kimi's race engineer prepares the car in a different, ultimately inferior, way to JPM's? It's not only engine failures that Kimi has more of.

**chunterer** · 7 Oct 2005, 10:39 (Ref:1426226)

Bain failures as well..?

Oh you mean the engineer, sorry..

Honestly, someone somewhere, is making mistakes with that car, be it driver, enginerer or manager

Kicking-back · 7 Oct 2005, 10:47 (Ref:1426237)

Quote:

Originally Posted by sonic

Dismal.

McLaren don't deserve to win the constructors title.

If they end the season with the most points they will deserve the constructors title.

Barring Indy, they're the only team to have scored in every race.

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