Super Aguri, a couple of questions.

[cds_uk]

Does anyone actually know anything about this team, have they got anything like the required number of staff, who have they got on the technical side of things, i would love to see this team on the grid next year but the stories going around involving the Arrows chassis don`t exactly fill me with hope.

[Kicking-back]

We should find out a bit more this week.

But the fact it was announced at Honda HQ shows how seriously to take it.

[Hein]

They are only considering the Arrows chassis because of time contraints. They simply do not have enough time to build their own.

I don't expect much from them for the first 4 years, not even Honda can make that miracle happen (it took Toyota a hell of a long time).

Good luck to them though, the more teams there is the better.

[Chris Gray]

This strikes me as a kind of Lola-F1-1997 about to happen all over again...

[Kicking-back]

It's nothing like the Lola situation.

That was a wing and a prayer.

The key thing here is that this was launched at Honda HQ.

Japanese companies are very big on not "losing face".

It will happen.

[Chris Gray]

Point taken, but when Toyota entered F1 in 2002 (?), they spent the whole of the previous year testing and still have not had brilliant results. How are Super Aguri going to fare with, potentially, four year old cars, especially when one considers that they have had such a late start.

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Chris Gray

Point taken, but when Toyota entered F1 in 2002 (?), they spent the whole of the previous year testing and still have not had brilliant results. How are Super Aguri going to fare with, potentially, four year old cars, especially when one considers that they have had such a late start.

Looking back two decades ago, it was common such "overnight" teams, compared to those they might be doing ok. Anyway, it's not expected that this team performs more than being lapped 7 or 8 times per race.

[Chris Gray]

Originally Posted by Bononi

Anyway, it's not expected that this team performs more than being lapped 7 or 8 times per race.

Do you mean, it is expected that Aguri Racing will end up seven or eight laps off the pace by the end of a race??? I can't see them being that far off the pace as surely they would not be allowed on the grid if they were that slow.

[Marbot]

Originally Posted by Chris Gray

Do you mean, it is expected that Aguri Racing will end up seven or eight laps off the pace by the end of a race??? I can't see them being that far off the pace as surely they would not be allowed on the grid if they were that slow.

Being lapped eight times a race will mean that your cars will appear on TV twice as much as when they're only lapped four times a race.So it's not all bad is it.

[BootsOntheSide]

The 107% rule doens't apply officially anymore, but cars which are consistantly that far off the pace can be told not to continue for that weekend. If they were slow enough to be lapped 7 times at some of the longer circuits, that could happen. And with 4-year-old chassis, who knows how bad they could be, particularly if the technical team isn't strong. Better to view 2006 as a testing year for them, and expect better in 2007.

[Dan Fielden]

Any news on the line up for the outfit?

[Bononi]

Originally Posted by Chris Gray

Do you mean, it is expected that Aguri Racing will end up seven or eight laps off the pace by the end of a race??? I can't see them being that far off the pace as surely they would not be allowed on the grid if they were that slow.

Well, it's just about that, as one or another, when not the two Minardis are lapped 4 or 5 times in a race. I would say if they managed to be less lapped than it can be an achievement !

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by Dan Fielden

Any news on the line up for the outfit?

Sato and Davidson.

[Ryo28]

Originally Posted by Hein

They are only considering the Arrows chassis because of time contraints. They simply do not have enough time to build their own.

I am by no means an F1 designer, but surely it will be a mammoth task to modify a 4 year old car to meet the new regulations in terms of aerodynamics, not to mention fitting a Honda V8 (or V10?!) into a car originally designed for a c.2001 Cosworth V10. Remembering how slow the hastily modified PS04 Minardi's were in Melbourne '05, the 'Aguri - Arrows' would surely be hopelessly uncompetitive? Also, have any new crash test rules come in since 2002 that would render the Arrows cars illegal? Reminds me more of the Pheonix fiasco than Mastercard Lola, and ironically Arrows are involved again in one form or another, although as K-B said, at least the might of Honda is behind this new team which should ensure some half-decent funding.

[Javi]

I thought phoenix was trying to use the Prost cars, not the Arrows, wasn´t it?

[Ryo28]

Thats right, but the whole thing was 'arranged' by Tom Walkinshaw who owned and ran Arrows at the time, and if the team had ever got off the ground they may well have used 'Arrows' (i.e Hart) engines as used by the Arrows team in 1999. Although it seems now that there was perhaps no real intention to run the team at all, and it was part of a plan by Walkinshaw to prevent Minardi claiming extra TV rights money due to the collapse of Prost, IIRC.

[Super Tourer]

It may be possible that Aguri can run 2005 BAR's, it hinges on the interpretation of the concorde agreement, one element of this is ownership of the intellectual rights to the car you compete with. Aguri are apparently investigating if this can be secured by buying the rights to the 2005 car from BAT who were the actual former owners of the team and therefore the car. There is other criteria to meet of course, but it remains a possibility.

The Mastercard Lola case is slightly different in that the project was brought forward a year by the sponsor and rather than lose the deal Lola went ahead. This was compounded by Eric Broadley's alleged belief that they could use all their design experience to produce a car without wind tunnel testing, the result of which was clear for all to see at the first race when it was 12 seconds off the pace.

Of course the comparison of a rushed project are valid, but Aguri presumably still has the luxury of being able to step back from the project for a year, whereas Lola allegedly found themselves propelled into it almost totally unprepared.

Alot depends on what degree Honda are involved and I keep seeing mixed reports on this. I would guess there is more support for it at Honda Japan than there is at the BAR factory, but how that support will actually manifest itself (apart from engines) and how much Honda will rush around to help make it happen is unclear.

[Javi]

That 1997 Lola was a disgusting episode. I had belief in the team and the company, but Mastercard behaviour was unacceptable, first of all rushing the project a year before it was ready and then pulling away at the second race, Lola and Broadley had no chance to do anything...

[BootsOntheSide]

Quite right Javi - and Mastercard's reputation and financial standing was damaged a lot less than Lola's, or that of the drivers. It was a convenient way to get out of an established commitment, adn showed a complete disregard for their duties.

[Super Tourer]

Lets not get into the blame game here re:Mastercard, we don't know what was in the contract with Lola or it's terms, etc and we don't want to enter that minefield.

[Javi]

do not get me wrong, I own a Mastercard visa now..., I did not want to blame the company but the people who directed that project, without knowing exactly the terms of the contract (any knows?), the way it happened wasn´t very sportive to me.
But (sorry), back to topic, I really hope Aguri will do better, let´s not be too harsh if at the end they are some seconds slower come first race and give them time. Honda will not let them down.

[Kicking-back]

Originally Posted by Javi

do not get me wrong, I own a Mastercard visa now...,

Is it a MasterCard or is it a Visa?


Some better marketing needed.

[Sodemo]

Mines a Visa, not that I ever use it.

[Skam85]

Me neither - it's maxxed out!

[Javi]

my mistake, in spain "visa" is used as synonimous for credit card