Control floorplan/chassis

dirttrack · 21 Nov 2005, 07:43 (Ref:1466185)

Story has it this is not far off becoming a reality. A bulletin issued to teams inviting them to register their interest at viewing the one that they (AVESCO) had built this weekend at Phillip Island.Control drivers the next step ?

Uncle Cranker · 21 Nov 2005, 08:35 (Ref:1466211)

Quote:

Originally Posted by dirttrack

Story has it this is not far off becoming a reality. A bulletin issued to teams inviting them to register their interest at viewing the one that they (AVESCO) had built this weekend at Phillip Island.Control drivers the next step ?

Controlling the drivers running off at the mouth SHOULD be the next step.

Camaroz · 22 Nov 2005, 12:43 (Ref:1467403)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Cranker

Controlling the drivers running off at the mouth SHOULD be the next step.

Start with Skase and the Spud!

spook · 22 Nov 2005, 13:20 (Ref:1467445)

I'd rather handle the PR for Skase than Skaife at the moment.

WebberForWDC · 22 Nov 2005, 23:59 (Ref:1467945)

Sports sedan V8 supercars. No thanks what a stupid idea.

These are still proper touring cars in the style of Group A ( even if TEGA has mixed and matched and tweaked a few mounting points and engine choices ) and they should stay that way!

TSR · 23 Nov 2005, 01:12 (Ref:1467975)

The floorplan thing might cut costs, but it is futher the gap from a road going car to race car thing that v8supercar australia is pulling over the australian public eyes

mixxer · 23 Nov 2005, 02:31 (Ref:1467994)

Quote:

Control floorplan/chassis

IMO thats a bad move, performance wise the series is close enough as it is, at the most recent round the field was covered by less than 1 sec.
I also don't think it will help with keeping the costs down as each team will still modify the cars to suit there own particular installations and equipment much the same as they do now with the Dencar or Beehag chassis

Quote:

The floorplan thing might cut costs, but it is futher the gap from a road going car to race car thing that v8supercar australia is pulling over the australian public eyes

You mean like the DTM already has

Silver GT · 23 Nov 2005, 02:45 (Ref:1468000)

do they ever asks the suporters (people who pay the wages) for input on these changes.

These cars are getting further and further away from reality. this series was built around Ford v Holden rivalry.............wheres the rivalry when they all drive the same car.

Is someone under the impression that it the drivers that bring in the people?

dirttrack · 23 Nov 2005, 02:53 (Ref:1468003)

They are as far from reality as you can get at the moment. No parts can be bought of the Ford/holden parts shelf and be used without modification except for the rear screens and maybe a few clips and screws here and there.

dsg · 23 Nov 2005, 03:16 (Ref:1468009)

I think it sounds like a good idea. The cars are already a million miles away from road cars and share many components with each other anyway.

A downside is the extra cost on teams but a positive aspect is it may make it easier for other manufacturers to enter the series.

Rivalry will still be alive while AVESCO market the manufacturers and cars have badges.

MRJUCY · 23 Nov 2005, 03:18 (Ref:1468010)

Another ridiculous move. The cars have gone from touring cars to sports sedans & will soon be closed formula cars.
A 2 make series is bad enough but 1 make series are pretty much the world over dull which is the direction they're heading. It's another step towards the ugly common shell NASCARs

WebberForWDC · 23 Nov 2005, 04:40 (Ref:1468024)

Common shells and floorpan (surely implies some space-frame madness?) could totally reshuffle the behaviour of cars and the order of the teams.

Interesting when 888 & HRT consistently run in mid 20s whilst Larkham Motorsport and Team Dynamik happen to find the right ideas & take to the first 10 rounds with a 1-sec a lap advantage! Shift in supporter bases?

Still the control chassis are an apalling idea, should never happen and will never happen.

RotorFan · 23 Nov 2005, 06:02 (Ref:1468043)

Quote:

Originally Posted by MRJUCY

Another ridiculous move. The cars have gone from touring cars to sports sedans & will soon be closed formula cars.
A 2 make series is bad enough but 1 make series are pretty much the world over dull which is the direction they're heading. It's another step towards the ugly common shell NASCARs

Yep. I care less these days whether a Ford or a Holden wins. They're just too similar. The premise for this series is the Ford and Holden rivalry and they're taking that away.

Why not just get it over and done with and make it a one-make series except with different badges.

Hey I just had a thought - why don't Toyota enter V8 Supercars with an updated Toyota Lexcen! LOL!

dsg · 23 Nov 2005, 07:05 (Ref:1468065)

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotorFan

Why not just get it over and done with and make it a one-make series except with different badges.

It already is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RotorFan

Hey I just had a thought - why don't Toyota enter V8 Supercars with an updated Toyota Lexcen! LOL!

Toyota can call it whatever they want, but some of the teams could use their money, or money their involvement frees up.

racer69 · 23 Nov 2005, 12:20 (Ref:1468247)

When this is adopted the farce of 'Worlds Best Touring Car series' will officially end, or will they continue to treat us like idiots and say they are still Touring Cars?

For the record, i consider DTM cars (compared to current V8 regs) even less of a Touring Car, and laughed myself silly at Mika Hakkinen's quote from AA.

This will also mark the end of the Ford vs Holden rivalry, or will everyone try and kid themselves that they are backing a marque (well, even less so than now), when all they are backing is some metal fitting around a common chassis.

johnh875 · 23 Nov 2005, 13:06 (Ref:1468302)

I'm dead against a common chassis, but given the rear suspension pickup points are already regulated, I don't think a control floorpan would hurt.

WebberForWDC · 23 Nov 2005, 23:40 (Ref:1468898)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

When this is adopted the farce of 'Worlds Best Touring Car series' will officially end, or will they continue to treat us like idiots and say they are still Touring Cars?

But but but....

- Do you really think that running LS2 engines & that (positively crap) BOSS engine would be better? Surely it's better to run more race-orientated motors that are in wide use, rather than try and make these new things "racey" when the US runs with the other motors.

- Is it really that important that the Commodore now has a wishbone front end. Up to 2002 the Commodore ran the proper "Road Car-based Homologated" front end suspension same as the road car, and the new one makes bugger all difference! Let the Holden teams run it if they think Ford had an advantage.

- Should Ford redsign the rear engine to be IRS & have Control Blade rear suspension so it can fit with proper good old-fashioned homologation for "genuine" touring cars? And Holden should have been allowed IRS since the early 90's? It's seems like throwing money down the drain, for no purpose to me!

Raceonly · 24 Nov 2005, 03:16 (Ref:1468978)

V8 Supercars are for Ford fans or Holden fans. It is not for real motorsport fans, although some of us do watch it because the history of motorpsort is what keeps us following it. There are other categories which are far more interesting, but without the media interest. This is because the media have no idea about motorsport. Why else would they put idiots like Leigh Diffey and Tim Smith where they do. Diffey is so bad, i mute the TV whenver he starts YELLING- which is all the time.

stoned pony · 24 Nov 2005, 03:35 (Ref:1468984)

Personally, I don't have a problem with it becasue the current race cars are not that far away from this formula anyway.
So you make one look like a Falcon and one look like a Commodore. You put a Chev engine in the one with the Holden badge and A Ford engine in the other and almost everything else is a shared component.
Pretty much like it is now.
As far as it goes I couldn't give a continental stuff what they drive. All I know is I'm watching people that I hope are the best drivers in the country racing each other.
I wouldn't care if they were in FVees, Aussie Classic things, HQ Holdens or Nissan Pulsars.
It is the racing that's important, not the cars.

Raceonly · 24 Nov 2005, 05:16 (Ref:1469013)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoned pony

Personally, I don't have a problem with it becasue the current race cars are not that far away from this formula anyway.
So you make one look like a Falcon and one look like a Commodore. You put a Chev engine in the one with the Holden badge and A Ford engine in the other and almost everything else is a shared component.
Pretty much like it is now.
As far as it goes I couldn't give a continental stuff what they drive. All I know is I'm watching people that I hope are the best drivers in the country racing each other.
I wouldn't care if they were in FVees, Aussie Classic things, HQ Holdens or Nissan Pulsars.
It is the racing that's important, not the cars.

You can never have fair dinkum racing in a parity formula, especially with a points system like they have

D.R.T. · 24 Nov 2005, 05:21 (Ref:1469018)

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoned pony

I wouldn't care if they were in FVees, Aussie Classic things, HQ Holdens or Nissan Pulsars.
It is the racing that's important, not the cars.

Does that mean that the category has reached where it is now because of its racing ?

As I would argue that their are far more categories of Australian motorsport with superior and far more interesting racing than than what the v8s offer, yet most people only look to the v8s.

The whole thing is built on Holden and Ford cars, without this how long would it last.

WebberForWDC · 24 Nov 2005, 05:37 (Ref:1469022)

V8 supercars are mostly definately touring cars as they are now! To pour money down the drain to make them constantly up-to-date with strict homologations from the SS & XR8 (to so-called make them "real" touring cars) would not be good for anyone.

V8 Supercars need to remain proper touring cars with production based chassis and not be sports sedans. Because among other reasons, frankly sports sedans aren't very popular are they? While DTM may be popular, they are much more sports prototype than entry level sports sedans.

racer69 · 24 Nov 2005, 06:52 (Ref:1469049)

Quote:

Originally Posted by WebberForWDC

V8 supercars are mostly definately touring cars as they are now! To pour money down the drain to make them constantly up-to-date with strict homologations from the SS & XR8 (to so-called make them "real" touring cars) would not be good for anyone.

V8 Supercars need to remain proper touring cars with production based chassis and not be sports sedans. Because among other reasons, frankly sports sedans aren't very popular are they? While DTM may be popular, they are much more sports prototype than entry level sports sedans.

How are they not Sports Sedans in their current form?

Your second paragraph seems to contradict your first, are you agreeance with this control business, or against it?

Raceonly · 24 Nov 2005, 07:18 (Ref:1469065)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

How are they not Sports Sedans in their current form?

Your second paragraph seems to contradict your first, are you agreeance with this control business, or against it?

Agreed. The front and rear of both makes is not production at all. A Holden did not win Bathurst- has not done so for years. A car that, if you removed the wings, looks like a Holden did win Bathurst. I consider them a silhouette formula, with the only mechanical difference being the engine.. It is ironic that a formula supposed to cater for Fords and Holdens using a car that really is neither. Yet everyone believes that they really are Fords or Holdens. Crazy.

WebberForWDC · 24 Nov 2005, 07:23 (Ref:1469067)

Quote:

Originally Posted by racer69

How are they not Sports Sedans in their current form?

Your second paragraph seems to contradict your first, are you agreeance with this control business, or against it?

But V8 Supercars are still real touring cars just with some control gear ratios & things. I'm not so sure that things like diff & gearbox are strictly a control item... just everyone uses the same one by convienience.

If they were strictly homologated Group A Commodore SS & Falcon XR8 race cars... they would look and go exactly the same as they do now! It just would make them extremely extremely expensive!

Note: It's not like even Super 2000s use the production bodykit though, that's being too optimistic, so they would run the same bodykits they do now. And even Super 2000 run on Control tyres do they not?

If V8 Supercars were to become sports sedans, that is a totally different beast.

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