The V10 engine saga with Toro Rosso is the truest sign of cronyism in the FIA!

Frank_White · 6 Dec 2005, 14:34 (Ref:1478288)

Its ludicrous having regard to the rational behind the restricted V10 and even the wording of the regulations that Toro Rosso is allowed to run the restricted V10 engines.

They obviously have the budget to run V8's.

The truth is that the boss of red bull is good friends with Max Mosley and therefore the FIA is not being aggressive against Toro Rosso in the enforcement of the regulations.

It sickens me.

I think we at ten tenths should prepare a petition against the restricted V10 and send it to the FIA and other news organisations.

ss_collins · 6 Dec 2005, 14:50 (Ref:1478294)

No way I can't wait till Monaco causes the huge contoversy

Gt_R · 6 Dec 2005, 15:35 (Ref:1478312)

Firstly, i must admit that i'm not fully up to speed with the details.

But iirc (and i stand ready to be corrected), the deal for STR to run V10s is actually made when Stoddart still own Minardi. FIA allowed small privateers leeway to use restricted V10s if they can't afford to adapt their car to V8s or cannot secure V8 deals. Cosworth offered Stoddart V8s, but Stoddart chose V10. Political or not is open to debate, but the best reason i can find for Stoddart to opt V10 is that their new car (which i think Stoddart plans for 2-3seasons worth of use) is designed around a V10.

Red Bull took over the team far later on.... and while i do acknowledge that STR has the budget now to convert, it's a grey area as the deal was done before Minardi became STR. It's really not wrong or bias or "good friends at work"

On the other hand, i'm quite curious as to why after taking over Minardi, Red Bull opt not to change. Probably they do not want to pump excessive cash into STR to re-develope everything until 2007...but i thought that RBR may benefit if STR runs V8s which effectively give them a racing "test-team" in terms of tyres, aero-parts, etc.

**Bononi** · 6 Dec 2005, 15:57 (Ref:1478319)

Let the ball roll, I'm curious what will happen if it turns out to be a whole mess.

pink69 · 6 Dec 2005, 16:26 (Ref:1478330)

I don't think the FIA should allow them to run the resistricted V10's. Pat Symons made a good point about whereas the top teams might not worry as much, teams like Midland should be worried! Its not like Red Bull are short of cash so churning out 2 extra race engines shouldn't be a problem for them!

Knowlesy · 6 Dec 2005, 16:29 (Ref:1478335)

If STR are seen to have any advantage, their engines will likely be restricted further I'd imagine...

Nado · 6 Dec 2005, 17:14 (Ref:1478382)

I don't agree with the OP at all, as much we all like to blame the FIA for everything surely it can't be for this. Stoddart needed this to keep the team alive, and Red Bull can't expected to change at such short notice to a V8.

I also don't know whether they'd be able to get a V8. Toyota and Ferrari can only supply one team, Cosworth says they prefer to only supply one team (probably just be PR though) and Honda, Mercedes and Renault were the only ones remainings - were they willing to supply another team (taking away Honda for SA)?

Having said that, I think the V10 will come with a lot of trouble next year. If STR beats anyone, there'll be complaints, the V10 will be restricted further, and STR complain that the gains are on the chassis... loop.

BootsOntheSide · 6 Dec 2005, 18:04 (Ref:1478407)

This is an absurd thread. The deal was done by Minardi, and the deal for Red Bull to buy the team was made too late for it to really be economical for the team to change the contract. Remember that there's no way Cosworth would let them run their V8, and would Ferrari be able to supply a third team?

Boro · 6 Dec 2005, 18:20 (Ref:1478415)

I think you guys need to keep your pants on.

The first race is 3 months away. If there is any advantage to restricted v10s over the v8s right now, surely it'll be negated come march.

if that isn't the case, the teams need to hire better engineers.

Pingguest · 6 Dec 2005, 18:22 (Ref:1478417)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ss_collins

No way I can't wait till Monaco causes the huge contoversy

I think that controversy will come earlier. In Imola, where torque is really needed.

Marbot · 6 Dec 2005, 18:51 (Ref:1478424)

I expect STR will be doing some sand bagging this winter.

Marbot · 6 Dec 2005, 19:02 (Ref:1478430)

One mans opinion here.

**Adam43** · 6 Dec 2005, 19:43 (Ref:1478454)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank_White

It sickens me.

You are easily sickened!

Also the final restricions are not set. However the FIA are not jumping to define them, because they want to get the right. Perhaps we could tell them.

I don't want V8s, the mixture of V10s and V8s isn't ideal. However I'm far from sickened. Maybe the STR team could afford V10s, but if them did perhaps they wouldn't have doubled their designed staff and built a far more solid base for their organisation and team. Thus providing a team that's future is safer. ?????????????????????

Frank_White · 6 Dec 2005, 19:52 (Ref:1478463)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

This is an absurd thread. The deal was done by Minardi, and the deal for Red Bull to buy the team was made too late for it to really be economical for the team to change the contract. Remember that there's no way Cosworth would let them run their V8, and would Ferrari be able to supply a third team?

It is obviously not an absurd thread because this very issue is the subject of advanced debate among the f1 teams and other pundits. All of the teams who have v8 engines have made simple modifications to allow their 2005 chassis to run them. There is no reason the minardi chassis cannot do the same. This issue is even more pertinant considering that Redbull is trying to get approval for Toro Rosso to run the 2005 Red Bull chassis.

Granted, if Cosworth publicly states that not V8's are available for Toro Rosso then fair enough. But in my view there should be an attempt made to procure the V8 engines by Toro Rosso.

Russ-Turner · 6 Dec 2005, 20:20 (Ref:1478483)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank_White

Its ludicrous having regard to the rational behind the restricted V10 and even the wording of the regulations that Toro Rosso is allowed to run the restricted V10 engines.

They obviously have the budget to run V8's.

The truth is that the boss of red bull is good friends with Max Mosley and therefore the FIA is not being aggressive against Toro Rosso in the enforcement of the regulations.

It sickens me.

I think we at ten tenths should prepare a petition against the restricted V10 and send it to the FIA and other news organisations.

Gimme a break!

Inigo Montoya · 6 Dec 2005, 20:49 (Ref:1478505)

As Bon says, why don't we wait until we see these guys race before we jump to any conclusions. Is the fear that restricted V10's will somehow be an advantage? If so, as knowlesy says, they'll quickly be further restricted.

mp356a · 6 Dec 2005, 21:31 (Ref:1478534)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thanh Ha

.... I think the V10 will come with a lot of trouble next year. If STR beats anyone, there'll be complaints, the V10 will be restricted further, and STR complain that the gains are on the chassis... loop.

Concur. STR is in a no-win (or place).

REALIST · 6 Dec 2005, 23:09 (Ref:1478585)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank_White

Its ludicrous having regard to the rational behind the restricted V10 and even the wording of the regulations that Toro Rosso is allowed to run the restricted V10 engines.

They obviously have the budget to run V8's.

The truth is that the boss of red bull is good friends with Max Mosley and therefore the FIA is not being aggressive against Toro Rosso in the enforcement of the regulations.

It sickens me.

I think we at ten tenths should prepare a petition against the restricted V10 and send it to the FIA and other news organisations.

You really think the FIA would care a rat's about a petiton on 10/10ths? What's the weather like on your planet?

gsmith2424 · 6 Dec 2005, 23:41 (Ref:1478595)

One thing I want to add is that I think the V10's may have a reliablity edge due to the fact that they have more experience behind them as compared to the V8's.

RaceFreak · 7 Dec 2005, 01:24 (Ref:1478640)

gsmith's got it !

While the 8's are a higher risk technology, STR has the proven 10. Should the Mercedes 8 prove as reliable as their 10 was, STR is in the Pound Seats.
Guarenteed one of the manufacturers will get it wrong. Not STR. THEY are covering both bases. Good move in my (conservative) opinion.

cos · 7 Dec 2005, 10:38 (Ref:1478806)

The FIA are able to change the maximum RPM allowed of the V10s when they want; so if the STR's V10s turn out to be "too fast" then they can quickly rectify the situation.

ASCII Man · 7 Dec 2005, 10:42 (Ref:1478807)

But what is "too fast"?

Being able to keep up comfortably with McLaren/Renault?
Thrashing RBR/Midland?
Finishing in the points?
Getting too much points?
Podiums...?

That's quite a gray area to make such a decision...

Gt_R · 7 Dec 2005, 10:46 (Ref:1478810)

You think the likes of Toyota, Renault, BMW who in recent time voiced concern over the V10 advantage will allow a V10 STR finish ahead of them without complaints?

ASCII Man · 7 Dec 2005, 10:55 (Ref:1478815)

No, I obviously do not think that.
I'm only questioning how the FIA is going to police this.

How wonderfull, F1 once again being the moaners paradise since the pre-traction control days...

Marbot · 7 Dec 2005, 12:19 (Ref:1478868)

It will be impossible to police IMO.What might work for one track will not work for another.The FIA can't force STR to run at max revs with their engine anywhere,or even get them to use the correct gearing or downforce etc and so come the race they could be way in front.

Face facts,they're going to run with max downforce everywhere!

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