BMW-Sauber and Williams

Peter Ford · 12 Nov 2006, 23:43 (Ref:1764541)

since having their own team in f1,bmw has beaten their old partners williams,how with them building their own car for 2007,will they still be able to beat williams or will they stuggle next year?.

SennaTheGreat · 12 Nov 2006, 23:48 (Ref:1764544)

Well........ I think that this is going to be another GOOD battle in 07. i think honestly that Williams will JUST shade BMW over the season, but i think BMW will have a better start to the season than Williams

FPV GTHO · 13 Nov 2006, 02:56 (Ref:1764597)

BMW are expected to jump ahead, whilst the predictions for Williams have been split: will they continue to fall, or jump back to where they were a few years ago. I dare say BMW will stay ahead of Williams, but i reckon they'll be in consecutive places in the WCC.

**Bononi** · 13 Nov 2006, 16:45 (Ref:1765108)

BMW will improve, at least it's all there to happen.

Marbot · 13 Nov 2006, 16:59 (Ref:1765117)

BMW will improve! The five series is already beginning to grow on me after only four years in production.

Don't Bee em's look great when they're ten years old!

But seriously:
If any of the Michelin teams can adapt to the Bridgestones quickly enough,then the title is wide open IMO.And BMW should be right up there with them.

f1manoz · 13 Nov 2006, 17:08 (Ref:1765129)

I think BMW will surprise next season. I'm predicting podiums and perhaps a win. They certainly have the drivers capable of doing it, they just need the car performance and hope it works with the Bridgies.

ECW Dan Selby · 13 Nov 2006, 17:15 (Ref:1765141)

BMW will wipe the floor with them.

Selby

SennaTheGreat · 13 Nov 2006, 17:17 (Ref:1765143)

BMW might get a few regular podiums BUT!! i cant see them winning yet

Marbot · 13 Nov 2006, 17:17 (Ref:1765146)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

BMW will wipe the floor with them.

Selby

Mop and Bucket on standby then.

ECW Dan Selby · 13 Nov 2006, 17:19 (Ref:1765148)

Certainly. I just can't see a Toyota engine being the change to their progressive problems.

Selby

Knowlesy · 13 Nov 2006, 17:25 (Ref:1765153)

I very much predict that BMW will kick Williams' backside into space. This is a team I expect to be winning races shortly, with their resources, drivers and strong....everything!

I have been really impressed with them. Mario Theissen took a lot of stick in the Williams years, particularly when BMW dumped Williams, but he has been vindicated in my view.

**Bononi** · 13 Nov 2006, 18:50 (Ref:1765224)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SennaTheGreat

BMW might get a few regular podiums BUT!! i cant see them winning yet

2nd and 3rd can give you a WCC... huhn... 17 to 18 races at least...

SennaTheGreat · 13 Nov 2006, 18:59 (Ref:1765233)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bononi

2nd and 3rd can give you a WCC... huhn... 17 to 18 races at least...

Bononi you are right, but they need 2nd and 3rd say every race lol!

**Bononi** · 13 Nov 2006, 19:05 (Ref:1765238)

Quote:

Originally Posted by SennaTheGreat

Bononi you are right, but they need 2nd and 3rd say every race lol!

Repeating... "17 to 18 races at least."

Marbot · 13 Nov 2006, 20:00 (Ref:1765272)

Nick is optimistic (or just mistic).

http://www.f1technical.net/news/4370

Oh,and knock yourself out with this.http://www.f1technical.net/f1db/cars/

And this.http://www.f1technical.net/f1db/teams/

rocketracer · 13 Nov 2006, 21:46 (Ref:1765357)

williams and bmw will only be battling when bmw has a bad weekend and williams is having a good one. On a normal race weekend i expect bmw to be clear by a considerable margin.

I dont think williams will have a dramatically different year to the year just past, with the possible change being the car should be more robust (well, it's hard to go backwards from where they are!)

BMW and Williams are in different performance brackets now.

FPV GTHO · 14 Nov 2006, 03:47 (Ref:1765485)

Im not so confident BMW will jump ahead. BAR 2004-2005 and RBR 2005-2006 had alot expected of them and both failed, perhaps BMW will be the next?

rocketracer · 14 Nov 2006, 05:50 (Ref:1765516)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Im not so confident BMW will jump ahead. BAR 2004-2005 and RBR 2005-2006 had alot expected of them and both failed, perhaps BMW will be the next?

well, that's just the thing - bmw dont need to jump anywhere, as long as they dont jump backwards, they will be competing well clear of williams.

I'm not sure we will see bmw winning any races just yet, but they will have one or two rounds next year where they pop their heads up to be reckoned with. I'm thinking similar to what BAR did in 04/05, but the peak will be later in the season comparatively....

Williams are in for a consolidatory year. I just cant believe that they will make such a dramatic turnaround in performance to be anywhere near a front runner for quite a few years...

chillibowl · 14 Nov 2006, 21:54 (Ref:1766240)

Quote:

Originally Posted by FPV GTHO

Im not so confident BMW will jump ahead. BAR 2004-2005 and RBR 2005-2006 had alot expected of them and both failed, perhaps BMW will be the next?

i think the RBR analogy is very interesting here.
RBR in 2005 used essentially a Jaguar designed chassis and the form they showed in 2005 can be attributed to Red Bull spending more than Jaguar/Ford would have. for 2006, their first RBR chassis was found lacking despite having money.

compared that to BMW, which used essentially a Sauber designed chassis for 2006 which was also made competitive with BMW's money. now that they are faced with the challenge of building their own chassis for the first time, to expect that they will successful at it is imo is a bit optimistic.

personally i expect Williams to regain the upper hand over their old partner

**Bononi** · 14 Nov 2006, 22:17 (Ref:1766260)

I really want Williams to, at least, start to rise again. I just don't know if it will happen.

BootsOntheSide · 14 Nov 2006, 22:32 (Ref:1766272)

If Williams match BMW, it's more likely to be due to a bad year for BMW than a good year for Williams, but it's possible. They didn't have to design the 2006 chassis, they just integrated it with their proven engine. By and large, they have kept the Sauber design team together though, so they might not have any problems.

**Bononi** · 14 Nov 2006, 22:46 (Ref:1766285)

Honestly, I'm divided. I like both Williams and BMW for similar reasons...

Matski · 15 Nov 2006, 18:42 (Ref:1767068)

Personally I hope BMW stuff Williams! but then I hope BMW stuff all the other teams as well!

I doubt in their first year with Toyota they will be top 3 competitive again, where as BMW have shown the right spirit and ability, for us fans to expect an increase in performance next year. but as Mario as said - it's all relative, he expects them to be better next year - it just depends how much better the other teams get!

WebberForWDC · 17 Nov 2006, 09:08 (Ref:1768348)

Quote:

Originally Posted by martyn bott

BMW will improve! The five series is already beginning to grow on me after only four years in production.

Don't Bee em's look great when they're ten years old!

Looking at the hideuously 2nd-rate box on wheels BMW were persisting in selling at late as 1999 !!! (the 3 series, 2 generations ago) and it's rival such as sleek cars like the Au Ford Falcon which is ugly in some points yet Mercedes produced a $200k super sedan coupe with almost identical rear end treatment some staggering ~5 years later!!! BMW and Mercedes design in the 90's seems extremely poorly done, dreadful boxy interiors inthe Mercs out dated interiors with old fashion short dashboard in the 90's Mercedes, exterior styling of the mid 90's that was a totally woeful direction that has been abandoned by all other car makers including them - all seem very ordinary for a renowned car maker. The previous gen 5 series was one of the earliest and thus boxiest and worst interpretations of that type of design compared to cars it was on sale against.

Matski · 22 Nov 2006, 20:26 (Ref:1772530)

Quote:

Originally Posted by WebberForWDC

Looking at the hideuously 2nd-rate box on wheels BMW were persisting in selling at late as 1999 !!! (the 3 series, 2 generations ago) and it's rival such as sleek cars like the Au Ford Falcon which is ugly in some points yet Mercedes produced a $200k super sedan coupe with almost identical rear end treatment some staggering ~5 years later!!! BMW and Mercedes design in the 90's seems extremely poorly done, dreadful boxy interiors inthe Mercs out dated interiors with old fashion short dashboard in the 90's Mercedes, exterior styling of the mid 90's that was a totally woeful direction that has been abandoned by all other car makers including them - all seem very ordinary for a renowned car maker. The previous gen 5 series was one of the earliest and thus boxiest and worst interpretations of that type of design compared to cars it was on sale against.

hmm, interesting opinio...

sorry I got distracted.

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