1985 Monaco GP

[marcus]

I am currently playing the 1985 season on GP2 and to study up on the season a bit ive been watching the season review video and consulting my grand prix data book , but the Monaco GP puzzles me.

why were there so many drivers who did not qualify for the event ?

was there a 107% rule in force back then ?
the list includes.

• Pier carlo Ghinzani (Osella)
• Stefan bellof (Tyrrell)
• Phillipe Alliot (RAM)
• Manfred Winklehock (RAM)
• Francois Hesnault (Brabham)
• Pier Luigi Martini (Minardi)

Ok apparently Martini was injured after a practise crash but the rest just have DNQ next to their names and left only 20 cars to start the race instead of the usual 26 at the time.

I was just wondering if anyone knew why this was so and the other were not allowed to start the race.


CHEERS
Marcus

[DNQ]

If I remember correctly, the Monaco grid during the period was limited to twenty starters, this continued right into the early nineties I believe.

[marcus]

yeah i just checked and it was the same for 1986 , but then in 87 it went to the normal amount , I guess it was safety concerns

[Rob29]

Only 16 starters were allowed at Monaco F1 1956-70.later 20. When I first went to Brands Hatch only 14 starters were allowed on the club circuit,later 20,and more recently 28.Seems such rules were more about money than safety.The non-qualifyers at Monaco did not get paid.
If just 2 cars are on a circuit they will manage to hit each other-I have even seen a collision in a drag race!

[Jonny Apex]

DNQ is quite right. In 1985, Monaco was limited to 20 starters. It was the same in 1986, but in 1987 they changed it to allow the normally-aspirated brigade a chance of a race. This caused a lot of frustration among some of the leading turbo drivers, such as Prost, I recall, as they were lapping some 10 seconds plus quicker than the slowest non-turbo cars. Philipe Favre in that awful long white AGS spent probably over 30 seconds a lap checking in his mirrors! I still recall Murray laughing at how quickly he got out of the way through the swimming pool complex when Senna in the Camel Lotus came up to lap him!

But what a race 85 Monaco was. Alboreto (who talks us through the race on the season review tape) fighting Prost in the McLaren. Alboreto had brilliantly passed Prost to lead, then slid on oil at Ste Devote and picked up a puncture, had to pit and chase back after Prost, setting a best lap time over a second faster than anyne else ...

[ghinzani]

Phillipe Favre is Pacal Fabre... easy mistake to make! The organisers then had a change of heart and did their best to stop people racing - they banned Danner from racing after he had a practice shunt with Alboreto, and they also stopped Campos racing on medical grounds after he had a shunt. Thus 24 starters.

[Jonny Apex]

Marcus: Meant to ask. GP2 - I'm assuming this is for PC. Is the '85 season part of an existing game you have to unlock or can you buy it on its own. Sorry, I've only got a PS2! Sounds fascinating ...

[marcus]

with GP2 it is based on the 1994 season but you can get downloads from the net and change several things in the game , basically you can play any season from 1950 to present day , it is simply fantastic , you can also change the tracks to the ones that were driven on in that season, change drivers,car shapes to whatever year your doing , loads and loads of stuff.

GP3 and GP4 I believe can do the same things but as these games are reasonably new there isnt as many downloads for them as GP2 , but sadly some things are becoming harder to find as the new games are taking over , but it is awesome and always what i have wanted and im loving every minute of it.

Check it out if you can Johhny , cause you will have a ball racing the old seasons, I am currently playing as Teo fabi in the Toleman back in 1985.

Hope this helps

[ghinzani]

Marcus I look forward to being your team-mate starting at the Osteichring !! I only played the original geoff crammond GP on the AMiga (boywas I addicted to that) but I am borrowing GP2 and GP3 of a mate at work and I'll get the patches so I can re-create my glory years at Osella ;-)

[ghinzani]

One thing occurs to me about Monaco and Osellas - Piercarlo qualified well there in 86 and Caffi was stunning there in 87.. considering they had weak engines the chassis could'nt have been all bad!

Oh and on the subject of Tolemans powered by Hart engines, does yours lunch itself regularily then Marcus, for that authentic 1985 Hart attack feeling!

[marcus]

yeah I had a big blow up in round 1 after only 15 laps , round 2 I crashed and tore the car to pieces but round 3 after 2 stops for electrical problems i managed to finish in 12th and im just up to Monaco now and currently running in 11th after the engine let go in qualifying.

great stuff isnt it , i hope you enjoy it Ghinzani

[strad]

..Some excerpts from the qualifying report By Nigel Roebuck

""The final qualifying session was a classic. As always at Monaco most of the hotshoes were queued up at the end of pit lane a few minutes before one o’clock, waiting for the track to be reopened. The sense of anticipa_tion was overwhelming — final qualifying at Monte Carlo is, in effect, the race, deter_mining the shape of Sunday’s crocodile.
Within six minutes Ayrton and the Lotus had done a 1-20.73, nearly a second inside their Thursday mark together, but still half a second from Alboreto’s stunning time in the morning. Could the Ferrari driver beat it?
He could. Ten minutes later the excellent hillside scoreboard flashed up a 1-20.56 for number 2, and there were shrieks of ecstasy from the stands.
Prost’s McLaren then served notice of intent, third fastest briefly until Mansell’s Williams displaced it. And shortly before half-past one Senna’s black number 12 took to the track once more. For his first run Ayrton had used Thursday’s tyre combina_tion, qualifiers on the front, soft race on the back. Now he had qualifiers all round, and he carefully brought them up to temper_ature.
And then Tambay lightly hit the guardrail at the swimming pooi, bouncing into a spin. Out came the yellow flags — just as Senna arrived. “That, for sure, would have been my best lap,” he later said. “The tyres were perfect.” But he kept on for another, and the scoreboard had him back on pole position:1-20.45.
On his second run, however, the Ferrari driver was a little slower than before. There remained the possibility of a third on a mixed set, but in the meantime Alboreto was further displaced by Mansell, whose second run took him to within eight-hund_redths of Senna!
And now came the controversy. Towards the end of the session Ayrton came out once more, back on his original set of qual_ifier/race tyres. Behind the Lotus was Alboreto’s Ferrari, its occupant becoming apoplectic with rage in his attempts to get by.
Finally, at Rascasse, Michele decided to force his way through, leaving Senna the choice of either being clouted by the Ferrari or swerving wide. Ayrton took the second option, the Lotus braking to a halt only a few inches from the guardrail. He then reversed away from it, drove into the pits and parked.
As it was, his pole position was safe. Alboreto’s tyres no longer held a quick lap, and he could only curse. Senna, for his part, said he thought the Italian’s move at Ras_casse was dangerous and stupid.
A little earlier he had also incurred the wrath of Lauda, who came into the pits with steam issuing from his helmet, claiming that he, too, had been held up by the Lotus.
“That I did feel bad about,” Senna said. “I think I’m one of the drivers who uses his mirrors the most..but I didn't see him." and it was my fault. I went to apologise to him afterwards.” Lauda, irate, declined to accept it. . -
“As for Alboreto,” Ayrton continued, “I don’t understand him. If I was holding him up, why didn’t he ease back for half a lap and then go for it? It wasn’t down to me to make it clear for him — it was down to him to find a clear gap, just as I had to... Michele didn’t see it that way.""

""At Monaco it was Senna’s turn to run the latest EFI5 Renault engine, de Angelis having had it at lmola. Elio does not enjoy this circuit very much, and never looked like matching his team mate in practice. After the last session he complained of poor pick_up out of the slow corners, adding that he had never got anything like a clear lap. He qualified ninth, almost exactly a second from his team mate.
Mansell, thrives on Monaco, and for the first time succeeded in out- qualifying Keke Rosberg.
Keke’s practice days were frustrating. On Thursday afternoon he had turbo failures on both his own and the spare FW10, and Satur_day was marred by ‘outside influences’. “On my first run,” he related philosophically, “I got held up by de Cesaris at Rascasse.”
Unbelievably, Johansson had two more troubled days of practice. During the first morning his Ferrari clanged down the guardrail into the chicane escape road after a brake had locked on.
Before the last session on Saturday, though, Stefan felt confident of going well:
“The car’s much better today. I was fastest for a long time this morning, but I didn’t get time to do a run on qualifiers.”
Fifteen minutes from the end of practice, Johansson came through Tabac and the pool area on what looked like a very quick lap, but he never got to the end of it.
“I came up behind Fabi at the last bloody corner, and the bloke was just dreaming. He was going slowly, I went to overtake him and he just drove me into the barrier! He’s not the kind of guy who would do something like that deliberately — he just didn’t see me. And that was my first lap with qualifiers all round..
The big surprise on the first day had been Riccardo Patrese’s Alfa, second fastest to Senna. Although the Italian improved a little in the last session, 10 other drivers vaulted over him, and that meant a drop of five rows. Travelling in the opposite direction was Cheever, positively gleeful on Saturday afternoon. Eddie, who missed the cut at Monaco a year ago, was fourth fastest this time, and looked it.
“We have a new wing here, which is much better than the old one, and the grip is good. Most of all, though, we’re understanding more and more about the Bosch Motronic, and throttle response is excellent. I think we can run with just about anyone on power as well. I mean, the car is good all round right now — if it can finish - -
Given the McLaren results of the last season and a bit, Alain Prost was fairly certain that he could finnish, but was not satisfied with his qualifying power: “We have to do something about this. Yes, in race trim we have no problems, but we’re always starting further back than we should. I’ve had some trouble with traffic, but so does everyone here.”
Thierry Boutsen’s fine Imola form was maintained in Monte Carlo, his Arrows sixth on the grid. “Thursday was wasted,” he com_mented. “I still had my Imola race engine in, and it felt about 200 horsepower down!” That first day, indeed, the Belgian was only 16th, slower than team mate Gerhard Berger, who finished a very respectable 11th.""
""Ligier had a substantially revised JS25 for Monaco, the preserve of de Cesaris. “For the first time,” Andrea grinned, “we may be somewhere near the weight limit. The chassis is 30 kilos lighter, and I have the Renault EF15 for the first time, which is six kilos lighter. The car feels much better, much more lively.”
Through the swimming pooi complex Derek and Patrick were obviously working hard, their Renaults needing much more road than the front runners. Warwick’s mood remained light, but Tambay was fed up to the teeth. It was his turn to have an EF15 this time, and on Thursday it refused to run cleanly: “They changed the plugs six times!”
In the last session Patrick came out for his second run, cruising quietly on cold tyres. At the left-hander around the pooi he gave it just a touch more throttle than he should, and instantly the tail of the car flicked against the barrier. He faced a frustrating afternoon on Sunday.
So, too, did Nelson Piquet. So bad did he find the Pirelli qualifiers on Thursday that he ran soft race tyres in the official session. Friday he spent at Paul Ricard, trying out new qualifiers, and these were used for the last session. Despite paring off almost two seconds from his previous best time,Nelsons position didn't 13th didn't change."

[Guy Goddard2]

Originally posted by marcus
with GP2 it is based on the 1994 season but you can get downloads from the net and change several things in the game , basically you can play any season from 1950 to present day , it is simply fantastic , you can also change the tracks to the ones that were driven on in that season, change drivers,car shapes to whatever year your doing , loads and loads of stuff.


Hope this helps

Marcus,

Can you point out exactly where these downloads are and how to do them?

Thanks

Guy

[marcus]

I will get back to you on this one , I just tried looking up the sites I usually visit and they dont seem to be working , but i will hunt around and post back here for you ASAP

[marcus]

many folks round here probably have thrown the game out and purchased GP3 or GP4 , but GP2 is still my favorite game.

the downloads are becoming harder and harder to find these days , but to get there are still a few sites out there with them.

Ok , so the first thing you need is this little site http://www.sportplanet.com/gp2/
this has heaps of downloads for GP2 and I belive is one of the best still available.

unfortunately you are required to sign up to be allowed to download from that site , this is new to me so im not sure how it works , but try it and see how you go.

the first thing you will need is a utility calle Nocd, this can be found in the left column under Utilities , then you need to find the Patches section , and in there should be GP2NOCD utility , just download that , you need this to be able to change tracks and things.

thats step one taken care of , just place the program in your GP2 directory and then run the program , it will tell you to make a new folder called "circuits" and copy all your current circuits off the cd into this folder , except for one file which i cant remember now lol , but it tells you which one.

the circuits will be listed as "F1ct01.dat" meaning F1 circuit 01 which is brazil in the game.

Hopefully you are following me on this one.
thats the first thing you need to do , it may sound a little complicated but in actual fact it isnt , it just seems that way even to me as im typing it out lol

[marcus]

now all you need to do to change the tracks is download a new one(you can find these tracks on that sits main page or links to the tracks at least) unzip that file and find the .dat file , simply copy that to your new circuits folder and remove one of the old ones , there is only room for 16 track files so you have to delete one of the original track files , you can either delete them completely or place them in another folder so you know you still have them. if at any time you want to play the original 1994 tracks you can put them back in the circuits folder or simply re install the game from your CD.

now the new file you have placed in your circuits folder has to be renamed , you can usually place in any spot you like , for example the file you downloaded maybe called melbourne.dat or something like that , you have to rename it F1ct01.dat if you want that as round 1 after yoiu have removed the original F1ct01.dat file , hopefully that makes sense.

then you have Albert Park (or whatever file you downloaded in your game

there will also be a few things called gamejams in the download you just did , or jad or jam files , jad files usually come with a covert program to convert them to jam files which is what the game recognizers.

in your GP2 directory there will be a folder called gamejams , open that up and create a new folder called melbjams or something like that , it should tell you what to call them in the help file you get with your download, simply place all these jam files in that folder and bobs your uncle , now you completely have Albert park loaded and ready to play, all you need to do is go to your GP2 directory , and without inserting your CD click on the MSDOS icon that should say GP2 , and your away and playing.

[marcus]

thats how easy it is to play different tracks in GP2, I really hope that that was easy to follow, but if you read it carefully and do it step by step you should be right.


Now to play different seasons such as 1985 that im currently playing (oh why oh why does my Toleman keep blowing up ????)

you will need another utility called GP2 edit , this is very very simple to use , its created by a guy called Steven Young and can be found again under utilities and then find the editors section and there should be GP2 edit simply download that and run the program and bobs your uncle again.

you can then download season carsets such as 1985 , they can also be found on that site , then you simply unzip that file and click on the little car icon and it will or should automatically run the car set in GP2 edit and then you can play around with that and change whatever you like.

there are onlky 28 slots available in the game for cars (as this was the number of cars in 1994) which can be a pain if you want to recreate say the 1989 season when there were 39 cars or whatever , so playing around with GP2 edit can be a pain sometimes , but it sure is a fantastic program.

so thats it you can now play any track and any season you want to play in GP2, it can be a hassle trying to work it all out at first but once you understand what your doing then you will have hours and hours of fun.

[marcus]

there are also many other little features you can download , such as car shpe , which is also very good , for example , you dont want to be playing the 1985 season with all the right liveries on the car but still using the 1994 car shape , it just looks silly , so you can download something called carshape editor and then download different carshapes as well , I found a file that has carshapes from 1950 through to 1999 , which is awesome.

there is a heap more downloads you can find and add on , just have a look around and see what you can find , there is simply too many for me to go on and on about here , but that is the basics to get the game going any way you want.

I really hope all of this helps you out so you can enjoy playing GP2 to the best of its capabilities.

CHEERS
Marcus

P.S feel free to ask me any more questions and if i can help you out i will, I had no one to help me out and had to learn it all by myself and it was very frustrating and many mistakes , so someone to give you a hand is a big help

[ghinzani]

Marcus, Im busy playing GP on the PC that someone has lent me for a few weeks, plus Ive got GP1 up and running on my old Amiga - however come the new year I will be searching e-bay for GP2 -especially when work fits me ADSL!! Maybe I outta jump into that second Toleman and show you how to nurse an engine, seeing as Ive had all that Alfa v8 experience !!

[Guy Goddard2]

Marcus,

Thanks for looking all this up, did you spot any downloads for GP3 to go back in time as well?


Guy

[marcus]

sorry Guy I havent GP3 so I dont really pay any attention to GP3 downloads , Ive only got GP2, but Im sure there are downloads out there. but i hoped all that dribble I typed helped


and Ghinzani , I dunno whats going on Ive had 3 races in a row where my engine has let go, but anyway Im still having a ball and im not paying for engines so let em blow I say

Cheers
Marcus