Wot a load of ****

Rambo · 30 Sep 2002, 15:54 (Ref:392294)

I knew they were cruising after the second stop - and the reason for Rubens 'catching' Michael after the stops became apparent in the interview with Ross - but to do that on the line was just stupid. Totally idiotic. Hungary, Monza, now Indy - I don't want to see Ferrari act like BTCC Vauxhall drivers, but this is daft. And doing it in front of the Americans was idiotic.

Rubens - when you're told to take it easy on the new tyres to stop them blistering, don't use that as an excuse to make it look like you're catching Michael just because he's taking it easy and you aren't - when he dropped the hammer he left you standing, you cheeky little runt.

Michael - stop cruising for the last part of the race. It's boring!

And how many times is he going to have to 'repay' Rubens for Austria?? Come ON!!

STOP MUCKING ABOUT!!

**Aysedasi** · 30 Sep 2002, 16:02 (Ref:392312)

The only thing that surprises me is why people get so het up about F1. When everything is such a foregone conclusion, I guess Ferrari and their drivers need to give us something to talk about. Be thankful for very small mercies.

freud · 30 Sep 2002, 17:44 (Ref:392411)

I am just amazed by the reaction of Ferrari management in particular Michael. Here are Michael's two different explanations:

First Explanation:

Immediately after the race he says that he was trying to engineer a dead heat between the two Ferraris:
"We are such a great team together, Rubens and myself. I saw it as a good opportunity to go over the line together but we just failed."

What a load of BS.

the statement just depicts what Michael thinks of an average f1 fan. Michael's fan should take this with a pinch of salt as Michael is just playing games with public, media, his team and even himself.

Second Explanation:

In a subsequent news conference Schumacher said:

"I did not feel pretty happy with what happened in Austria from my point of view but a decision was made at the time. But now I have equalised this and I can give Rubens something back. He deserved the win."

hole. Didnt he say that just a few GPs ago (damn I forgot what was it, hungary?).

Michael Schumacher has no respect for his fans. He has no respect for his Sponsors. He has no respect for the Sport. Infact he is not a 'Sportsman'. I would say that his actions make him a businessman. Michael's puke is one thing, listen to what Toad thinks:

...Nothing was planned though I did have an idea that Michael would pay Rubens back

On the Other hand Brawn says:

.. this is a complete surprise to me. I dont think it was Michael's decision.

There you have it again. Toad saying one thing and Brawn another. I am sure Toad would change his statement and I am expecting a 'new' version from him soon.

Ferrari has never lacked class & dignity in such colossal proportions... they are in a state of mess. They are winning but honestly does it matter anymore?

Guy Goddard2 · 30 Sep 2002, 18:14 (Ref:392435)

Whatever we are watching its certainly not motor racing and thanks to TGF instead of being the great champion we expected of him he may now be the sole reason for its failureas a sporting spectical

freud · 30 Sep 2002, 18:16 (Ref:392437)

Yeah, exactly. Its mockery of sport!

Total-F1 · 30 Sep 2002, 18:27 (Ref:392449)

They're just twiddling their thumbs.

Liz · 30 Sep 2002, 19:07 (Ref:392471)

My southern Granny, who would never call anyone a liar to his face, used to greet such mendacity with a drawled, "Is that a fact?" that let everyone know that she was perfectly aware that it was not.

From now on, that will be my stock response to any "would you believe" statements made by Ferrari after the first ten minutes following a

up.

Andrew Kitson · 30 Sep 2002, 19:55 (Ref:392488)

The result yesterday was apparantly the closest ever finish of a GP. Well, it certainly won't be remembered that way by me even if it is in the record books, as they were not racing - disgraceful. The previous record of that 'wheel to wheel' flat out blast to the line at Jerez by Senna and Mansell in '86 was a true 'racing' close finish record.
The domination of Ferrari is not unlike the works F2 Ralt Honda team in 1984. At Silverstone, Thackwell and Moreno were so much quicker they played with each other right up to the last lap. They passed and re-passed each other to at least make it seem exciting with instructions not to take each other off - At the last chicane, Moreno went for it and spun nearly taking Thackwell with him. Mighty exciting it was too instead of a formation finish cruise Ferrari bore us with today. They are rapidly losing all cred.

Liz · 30 Sep 2002, 20:08 (Ref:392495)

I think the closest finish in a race was between Elio de Angeles and Keke Rosberg, but I can't remember when it was.

Andrew Kitson · 30 Sep 2002, 20:10 (Ref:392497)

That was 82 in Austria Liz but that record was 'just' beaten in Jerez in 86 by Senna and Mansell.

enemy-ace · 30 Sep 2002, 21:13 (Ref:392542)

Quote:

Originally posted by freud
I am just amazed by the reaction of Ferrari management in particular Michael. Here are Michael's two different explanations:

First Explanation:

Immediately after the race he says that he was trying to engineer a dead heat between the two Ferraris:
"We are such a great team together, Rubens and myself. I saw it as a good opportunity to go over the line together but we just failed."

What a load of BS. the statement just depicts what Michael thinks of an average f1 fan. Michael's fan should take this with a pinch of salt as Michael is just playing games with public, media, his team and even himself.

Second Explanation:

In a subsequent news conference Schumacher said:

"I did not feel pretty happy with what happened in Austria from my point of view but a decision was made at the time. But now I have equalised this and I can give Rubens something back. He deserved the win."

hole. Didnt he say that just a few GPs ago (damn I forgot what was it, hungary?).

Michael Schumacher has no respect for his fans. He has no respect for his Sponsors. He has no respect for the Sport. Infact he is not a 'Sportsman'. I would say that his actions make him a businessman.

Well this seems like a fun game, let me play
Jerez '97
First Explanation:
"I braked on the maximum and he braked even later, and with his braking point I wouldn't have made it around the corner and he wouldn't have made the corner either, so he used me as a little bit of a brake.
"But I probably wouldn't have done anything different."
-Michael Schumacher
Facing the press immediately after the race, Schumacher refuses to admit a mistake. The next day's headlines said 'Schumi: It Was Not My Fault, I'd Do It Again'.

Second Explanation:
"I knew it was not right but this was an important moment. It was everything or nothing and you go for it... I grew up with Ayrton Senna and remember incidents with Alain Prost and Senna. It was part of the game. "
-Michael Schumacher
Finally admitting to deliberately attempting to take out Jacques Villeneuve at the Dry Sack corner at Jerez 1997.

Methinks I see a pattern, that Michael ever the sportsman

Snetman · 30 Sep 2002, 22:02 (Ref:392585)

Sorry Andrew & Liz you're both wrong. The closest ever finish (and still is) was Monza 1971 when Peter Gethin beat Ronnie Peterson by 0.01s. Jerez '86 was timed at 0.014s. Austria '82 at 0.05s. I've seen the times for yesterday's race at 0.01 (equal to Gethin's) and 0.011. So what was their official time? Either way Rubens hasn't the closest finish ever. It would be a travesty if he had as that wasn't racing.

mac · 30 Sep 2002, 22:13 (Ref:392594)

How many threads do we need on this?

Wrex · 30 Sep 2002, 23:41 (Ref:392654)

Thank you mac, my thoughts exactly. Merger time I think.

Liz · 30 Sep 2002, 23:42 (Ref:392656)

So what else is there to talk about?

Thanks for the info on the "closest ever" -- that was the one I was thinking of in 1982 but I hadn't heard about the others.

Seems to me that the First Explanation/Second Explanation at Macau was the same kind of thing -- the first one a blurted out truthful "Yeah I hit him on purpose and I'd do it again" and the second one "It wasn't my fault, it was just an accident" kind of thing.

That's why I always sasy the first answer he blurts out is the truth and everything that follows is a lie. It's a pattern.

Rambo · 30 Sep 2002, 23:44 (Ref:392658)

As a Schumacher fan from the very start of his career, I'm extremely annoyed that he's done this. But hey, blame Williams and McLaren for being so sh*te they can't touch him. It's their fault he's bored silly and doing stupid things!

Wrex · 30 Sep 2002, 23:49 (Ref:392663)

No problem with the discussion Liz, I just dont think we need 9 threads to do it.

freud · 1 Oct 2002, 02:16 (Ref:392717)

Liz, this time it seems that TGF is even losing his abilty to 'lie' properly. I just read an statement from Hans Stuck who has alleged that USGP was a 'fixed' race. He thinks that while crossing the finishing line Michael moved over to the left and was NOT on the right side of the road near the pitlane. If Michael actually had intention of winning that race he would never have move to the left side of the track which is away from the pitlane.

Amazing, isnt it. Everything falls into place with this explanation. I do think that Rubens didnt know about the 'fix'. Toad & TGF are 'probably' the culprits in this whole fiasco.

Wrex · 1 Oct 2002, 03:12 (Ref:392728)

To me, Schumachers explaination is the worst part of this. Had he said, I was trying for a photo finish and we screwed up, everything would be fine IMO. It was this vague "trying for a dead heat/paying Rubins back" rubbish that bothers me. You screwed up, just admit it already.

Rambo · 1 Oct 2002, 03:14 (Ref:392729)

Maybe he simply fell asleep in the cockpit. Makes as much sense as anything else!

freud · 1 Oct 2002, 13:49 (Ref:393075)

I dont think he screwed up. It was a calculated & precise move to give Rubens the GP. Why he did it?? I am not sure. Does Michael gamble??

I'm sure there's lot of casino in f1...

**Aysedasi** · 1 Oct 2002, 15:53 (Ref:393164)

Quote:

Originally posted by Total-F1
They're just twiddling their thumbs.

Nothing to do with thumbs. One middle digit, more like.

MGF · 1 Oct 2002, 15:59 (Ref:393167)

Nice one Ayse!!

Got to admit that the TV Coverage was better this time though... I mean they didnt just concentrate on watching two Ferrari's circulating on there own... Even racing for 16th 17th and 18th places was given a fair ammount of coverage..

Anyway.. it still confirms my opinion that F1 has really fallen from grace over the last... erm... 10 years..

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