What gives Moss the right to criticise Michael?

[Stephenw]

Seems like every year after a great drive by M. Schumacher Sterling Moss is in the press saying the Michael's not real racer and that he makes too many mistakes...

I'm having a little trouble understanding how the guy who never won a championship should be the authority on the guy who has 5, on his way possbily to 6...

He calls Raikonnen a great racer then says MS makes too many mistakes but I seem to recall Raikonnen being the one starting from the back due to a *gasp*, mistake.

Don't get me wrong I thing Raikkonen is as good as they come I just can't see the logic in Moss' statements in the face of Raikonnen's blunder this weekend...

Is Moss just bitter or what? I thought MS did a good job controlling that race...the Moss slag off is kind of a cheap shot if you ask me...

[Lee Janotta]

Because...

#1: He was teammates with the first 5-time World Champion.
#2: He drove at a time when a mistake one track could well leave you crippled or dead.
#3: The Brits worship him as a God.
#4: Right or wrong, everyone's entitled to express their opinions to anyone who'll listen.

[DNQ]

Welcome to the forums.

The way I see it, everyone is entitled to an opinion, weather they're me, you, Alex Yoong, Stirling Moss or George Bush.

[Gt_R]

I'd just like to defend the current batch of drivers, including Schumacher, on the point of "making mistakes"

In the past, making a mistake is VERY costly. Your limbs, or even you life is lost. Hence, those who usually succeed are very brilliant drivers, even though cars in that era tend to be more varied in performance terms. Because a gutsy driver would dare to drive faster than anyone else, and everyone is careful NOT to make a mistake (which hence tend to mean more often than not all the drivers are pushing at 100% of what they DARE, but not 100% of what is capable)

But nowadays, performance of the cars are relatively similar. And the difference being on the limit and over is just a very thin line. BECAUSE OF the safety of cars nowadays, it encourages drivers to "try their luck" and push all the way of the capabilities of their machinery. Hence, every now and then, mistakes happen when incidents change. The drivers simply pop back into the garage for the spare.

Michael is a very special example. In testings and practices, he is almost sure to make mistakes. However, interestingly, when it comes to important times, such as the one shot qualifying, or when he needs to pull a gap to his competitor in the race, Michael can be brilliantly precise and mistake-free. It makes people wonder if all the mistakes in testing and practices are just experiments for the real thing. Yes, critics can point out incidents such as Indianapolis where he spun in the lead in 2000, or the hit in Malaysia this year, but how often do they come in his decade long season? And rarely are the mistakes termed stupid or cost him dear.

[f1manoz]

Moss is entitled to his opinion as much as you and me. However, Moss HAS driven these things before (well, you get what I mean) and IMO he does at least have a clue what he's talking about.

Whether you agree with him or not is your option. But he is a respected veteran of the sport and people do listen when he says something.

[Damon]

Originally posted by Lee Janotta
#3: The Brits worship him as a God.

I don't. In my experiance he's more arrogent than Schu but without having the success to justify it.

[jetsetter]

Moss has a right to his opinion just like anybody else, whether you like someone's opinion or not we live in a democratic society which gives people freedom to express themselves.

[Gt_R]

Moss has a right to his opinion just like any one else. He has the option to criticise MS just as we have the option not to listen

[DavidStHubbins]

Moss talks out of his arse 99% of the time. And us Brits DO NOT worship him like a god

I have met him and he comes across as an arrogant, rude and very irritable old dwarf. And he polishes his bald head!

[Adam43]

Stephenw, I don't see the relevence of Raikkonen in this. Did Moss say Raikkonen was the best ever and never make mistakes? He said Raikkonen is a great racer, not that he doesn't make many mistakes.

He can say want he wants and he does put it a cross quite well.

Welcome to the forum.

[Mattracer]

Moss is correct in one aspect. Schumacher does make mistakes when put under the most extreme pressure, but this is not in any way unusual. It's just that it catches him out when the stakes are so high. Adelaide 94 and Spa w/Coulthard are just two examples I can think of. Raikkonen? Well, it's still early days, and you would almost expect a mistake or three from a young guy at the centre of the world's attention in such a pressure-filled and dangerous existence.

[bastinscully]

I Value John Surtees opinion more than Moss, He achived more on Four wheels and Two wheels than Stirling ever has, and plus he`s a gentleman to boot.

[429CJ]

Surtees? A gentleman? I've heard just opponent, he being a very hard to get along with.

[Damon]

I've met John Surtees a few times at the Goodwood Revival Meeting and always found him to be a thoughly charming bloke.

[Peter Mallett]

Interesting to read that Moss is an arrogant whatever. Maybe its the way you approach him. He's a bit old fashioned but I've always found him to be urbane and charming. Also bloody interesting. He once said on tv that Michael was the best driver of his day. Maybe he was wrong to say that too? It was at the time of the Hill/Schumacher battles.

And I can polish my bald head too. Can't see the relavance in the thread though.

[429CJ]

If he was so 'charming' bloke, so why they kicked him out of Ferrari?

[avsfan733]

Originally posted by DavidStHubbins
Moss talks out of his arse 99% of the time.

opinions are like *******s, everyone has one

[ASCII Man]

Originally posted by 429CJ
If he was so 'charming' bloke, so why they kicked him out of Ferrari?

Moss has never driven for Ferrari, he did drive for Maserati in '54/'56/'57 though.
But that's entirely different.

On the "What gives Moss the right to criticise Michael?" subject, there is something called an "opinion".
The world would be a very boring place if nobody had his own ones...

[Peter Mallett]

I think 429CJ was referring to big John.

[ASCII Man]

Oh,......... right.

[NiceGuyEddie]

Originally posted by 429CJ
If he was so 'charming' bloke, so why they kicked him out of Ferrari?

Dunno, but rest assured, mr Ferrari will have had his reasons.

[Hungary 89]

At the end of the day people are always over critical of people who they don't like. I don't know Stirling Moss I have never met him but it would not surprise me in the least if he does not like Micheal Schumacher because of what he has done to the sport.

His refusal to drive on equal terms with team mates, his use of team orders (Remember Moss could have been champion if it wasn't for team orders), his willingness to drive into someone rather that allow them to take the championship, His use of the one move rule when someone trys to overtake.

All these things will not sit pretty with someone of Moss' Era when sportsmanship was so important.

If I am honest I don't see why people say Micheal makes lots of mistakes I can't remember that many. But I do understand why people critisise him

I have huge respect for his raw talent but I don't like his approach to racing and I suspect I never will

[NiceGuyEddie]

His refusal to drive on equal terms with team mates, his use of team orders (Remember Moss could have been champion if it wasn't for team orders), his willingness to drive into someone rather that allow them to take the championship, His use of the one move rule when someone trys to overtake.

Yes well, but thats all in the heads of Schumacher-haters.

It was never confirmed that he refused equal terms. There is no evidence that the terms aren't equal. We do know Ferrari and its sponsors are paying heavily for Schumachers services, and of course they want that investment paid back with sporting success. Of course Ferrari will be betting on one horse, of course Ferrari will steer clear of a driver that is, on merit, entiteled to equal status. Besides, Ferrari have always favoured the driver who had the best shot at the title. Of course, most of the time, when it is needed, that driver is Schumacher.

About driving into someone. It happened quite clearly in Jerez. When we take into consideration that this one move would decide the championship and Schumacher had a split second to decide, I can see why he went for it. I think any other driver would in those circumstances, but we will not know unless the circumstances arise once more.

His use of the one-rule-move is not clear to me. He has been known to swerve at the start in order to protect his lead into the first corner. There have been complaints and the FIA has concluded it is within the rules. So everyone is entiteled in doing so, and as we know, being in the lead after the first corner is rather important. It gives you the chance to dictate the race.

Besides, in other occassions, Schumacher has been a handfull in on track duels. He doesn't take prisoners, and yes, he pushes it to the edge if needed. But, thats racing isn't it? Yet, Schumacher is being accused of not having that capacity.

It can only lead to one conclusion: Schumacher-critics will rather contradict themselves than conclude that they are watching the best driver of the past decade making history by being utterly superior in almost every way. Perhaps not the most entertaining way of racing, but give the man at least some credit.

[z2252314]

Ive alway wondered why all the past drivers for e.g. Lauda, Prost, Stewart,Berger etc dont begrudge Michaels achivements, and are quite ready to acknowledge his brilliance as a driver. On the other hand, Moss seems to get more bitter towards Michael the more successful he becomes.

The point is, Moss is from the old school, and in his eyes, rightly or wrongly, modern drivers will always be inferior.

[Gt_R]

"The point is, Moss is from the old school, and in his eyes, rightly or wrongly, modern drivers will always be inferior."

I don't know if it is what he thinks, but i'm amazed how MANY people who follow the series long enough and are self-confessed purist hold this believe...

Does having better safety equipments and high technology make firemen of today any inferior to their old bucket-carrying counterpart?

As for the one rule move...i'm also quite curious why when MS does it, a big fuss is made, but nobody said anything when someone else does it. In fact, if people bother to look at cars after the first 2 rows of the grid, they weave quite a lot too.