BMW not welcome in Australian motor sport

cavvy · 26 Oct 2005, 10:13 (Ref:1443764)

Shame there is no room in Australian motor sport because it is not stopping Aussies enjoy the fruit of BMW beyond our shore.

The latest Davo to kick on, James will be racing in the Formula BMW world final, following his victory at Indy.

Michael Patrizi won on the China F1 card, ending up runner up in Asia.

Joining James Davison in the Formula BMW worlds is Nathan Athunes, tipped in some quarters as a potntial winner.

V8Supercars seem to have finished Aussie tin top drivers ever appearing internationally, Formula BMW is an opportunity for Aussie drivers to striut their stuff.

storyline · 26 Oct 2005, 10:28 (Ref:1443781)

For this one you can lay the blame aquarely at CAMS feet - they are the ones who have decided what categories you get to see here.

And, of course, - we all know what happens when you buck the system and upset CAMS.

spectator22 · 26 Oct 2005, 10:41 (Ref:1443797)

Dont think you can put this one down to CAMS. Heard BMW in Australia looked at viability of F/BMW and decided against it. There has been some publicity about Formula Toyota coming here (strong in NZ) but havent heard any more about it for a while. Anyone heard?

storyline · 26 Oct 2005, 11:01 (Ref:1443817)

Yes I had also heard they looked at it - but with CAMS, at the time, backing F3 and F4000 as their primary open wheeler categories - what message do you think this would send to BMW? ("Sure - we'd love to have Formula BMW here but we have to take care of our F3 and our home grown, not raced anywhere else in the world F4000 Powered by Holden categories first - if we get time we may be able to help you - now, just go stand in line behnd those Formula Libre's over there.'

racer69 · 26 Oct 2005, 12:41 (Ref:1443907)

BMW has suffered a few kicks in the teeth courtesy of CAMS over the years (more Touring Car related though), i'm suprised they even looked at the viability of running it. I recall an article a while back in...MRA maybe...about them looking into, in a short piece about Ron Meatchem.

Open-wheel formula's in Australia properly backed and properly supported, it'll never be allowed to happen

storyline · 26 Oct 2005, 13:00 (Ref:1443922)

Well not while some of those in residence at Dandenong Road, Malvern are there.

But - if a few of these were to either move on or be moved on who knows what might happen?

**GTRMagic** · 26 Oct 2005, 14:23 (Ref:1443991)

I understand the sentiment, but is a motorcycle engined single seater really what we want to see as topline single seater racing in this country?

I thought we were hankering after the F5000 days, not a rebodied Aussie racer

Sure BMW were also legislated out of existence in 1993... just like Nissan were... but the success wasnt as prolific as the Nissan, even if the support level from the importer/factory was as strong...

Phase3 · 26 Oct 2005, 20:45 (Ref:1444419)

I thought Super Tourers continued for a while past V8 supercars inception? They were a series that welcomed BMW, shame that no one wanted to watch them though!

mountainstar · 26 Oct 2005, 21:17 (Ref:1444468)

Formula BMW is way too expensive. $250,000 US$ for a season in a 150 hp car. The parts prices are out of sight.

Chucky · 26 Oct 2005, 23:30 (Ref:1444597)

Why would you even entertain the idea? The names you mentioned are doing very well for themselves (hats off) but they aren't exactly running against the cream of the crop.......

As for FBMW in Oz my answer is why? FFord is getting some momentum behind it again with the new regs bringing it up to date and F3 is enjoying a resurgence after the PROCAR debacle nearly killed them. Both enjoy reasonable support from corporate Australia but a lot of competitors in both classes run on a shoe string. Another class competing for drivers/budgets would be catastrophic.

Why would an open wheel version of Carrera Cup do anyone any good? Mountainstar's right. Parts are expensive and running costs would be no less than either F3 and probably more than FFord if the new engine is anything to go by.

JABWOA · 27 Oct 2005, 04:42 (Ref:1444713)

Are the new FF rules (wings etc) used anywhere else? Also, we don't need another motorcycle powered car series when we already have a multi classes, budget minded, bloody quick series already - SUPERKARTS!

cavvy · 27 Oct 2005, 07:20 (Ref:1444781)

[QUOTE=Chucky]Why would you even entertain the idea? The names you mentioned are doing very well for themselves (hats off) but they aren't exactly running against the cream of the crop.......

./QUOTE]

& the cream of the crop are .... ???

These guys are playing in the international field and running at the front.

I am not suggesting we need another formula in Aus but I do lament the absence of BMW from Australian motorsport just as I will when I watch Neville Crichton with Alfa Romeo sponsorship on the new maxi.

racer69 · 27 Oct 2005, 07:37 (Ref:1444790)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phase3

I thought Super Tourers continued for a while past V8 supercars inception? They were a series that welcomed BMW, shame that no one wanted to watch them though!

They did, but that was of course the only option BMW had, ultimatly pulling the pin at the end of 1997.

It was more than just being 'paritied out' of the ATCC in 1993, they'd been played around with by CAMS for years. They were refused homologation for the 535 BMW in 1982, weren't given 'goodies' for the 635csi to the same extent others were during the latter days of Group C, and when CAMS decided to keep the FISA 1988-spec Group A rules for 1989 (which hampered the BMW's abit), despite FISA dropping the formula. BMW then pulled out. In fainess to CAMS though, they did allow the German-spec M3's to compete here in 1991 and 1992 in Group A.

I don't think anyone is suggesting for Formula BMW to become the premier open-wheel series here, just that it is a good feeder series with international connections.

At the moment we have Formula Ford entering a new phase (which could be good, good be bad), F4000 we all know about, and Formula 3 still not as strong as it has been, despite the Gold Star tag this year and premier status on their appearances on the AMRS bill.

Nintendo · 27 Oct 2005, 17:43 (Ref:1445319)

be resonable, but i guess holden should really be on top

Just Do It! · 29 Oct 2005, 01:42 (Ref:1446480)

[QUOTE=cavvy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chucky

Why would you even entertain the idea? The names you mentioned are doing very well for themselves (hats off) but they aren't exactly running against the cream of the crop.......

./QUOTE]

& the cream of the crop are .... ???

These guys are playing in the international field and running at the front.

I am not suggesting we need another formula in Aus but I do lament the absence of BMW from Australian motorsport just as I will when I watch Neville Crichton with Alfa Romeo sponsorship on the new maxi.

Neville Crichton pretty much controls Alfa and Fiat imports into Australasia these days. Resultingly, it's not a sponsorship in the purest sense of the term

Falcadore · 30 Oct 2005, 00:33 (Ref:1447145)

I remember BMWs response to the 2.5 vs 5.0 debate back in 1992 was when the Longhurst/Morris team stuck a DTM based engine into a BTCC two door 318iS. A car which conformed to no regulations known to exist anywhere in the world. But hey...

The creation of the 1993 Group 3A regs did leave BMW & Nissan out in the cold - although at least BMW got given a sunset clause. But as the results of those regs speak for themselves its ...

I don't like it but acknowledge that it was good for the sport, and the alternative was to return to Group C.

Formula BMW would not be a good category for Australia, it's rather budget and parts intensive for the level of series that it is, and is surely only going to split competitors from Formula 3 and Formula Ford without adding anything significantly - much lik ethe original expansion of Formula 3 which has now seen F3 supplant and at the same time become F4000.

F4000 unique to the world? It's not that unigue. Formula 3000 has spawned around three or four children series around the world that are still running. If F4000 was serious about moving ahead, there are a whole bunch of Lola based chassis around the place which might be adaptable, but put simply, F4000's time has passed, and it seems Holden new found support for the class has accelerated the demise.

Formula Toyota would have a much better chance of success than FBMW - but both would be less than 50%.

Strangely enough - GT-Performance is the category best suited to support from BMW.

**GTRMagic** · 30 Oct 2005, 02:43 (Ref:1447201)

A trio of nice 3-series JPS BMW Racecars are for sale Here including what looks like Mr Towe's previous ride

Falcadore · 30 Oct 2005, 03:01 (Ref:1447203)

Seems a lot of money for cars which did not win the championships they claim to have - unless they mean class championships, which is stretching the bow.

Is the top car the ex-Bolwell car?

**GTRMagic** · 30 Oct 2005, 03:41 (Ref:1447213)

I think so Falcadore... it looks like the Kitten car, that ended up on its lid at Bathurst way back when....

Falcadore · 30 Oct 2005, 03:51 (Ref:1447219)

Bolwell still enterred his BMW at Lakeside as late as about 89/90 brian to buying a pair of Longhurst Sierras which then shed more wheels between them at Bathurst that year than fenders and rear guards were bent at Bathurst this year.

mountainstar · 30 Oct 2005, 04:41 (Ref:1447231)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

A trio of nice 3-series JPS BMW Racecars are for sale Here including what looks like Mr Towe's previous ride

A little bit overpriced I'd reckon. Maybe $30,000 for the whole lot.

David Towe · 31 Oct 2005, 12:38 (Ref:1448331)

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

A trio of nice 3-series JPS BMW Racecars are for sale Here including what looks like Mr Towe's previous ride

Got it in one, it is my old car, the Bolwell rollover car. The other 2 are the 325s that JPS built in 85/86. One of them won the Amscar series IIRC.

Quote Mountainstar.."A little bit overpriced I'd reckon. Maybe $30,000 for the whole lot".

You're kidding aren't you? The 323 was a good solid performer for me for years and was a front runner in the wet. The 325s would probably be a second or so quicker and if I could raise the money would have them in a flash. Apart from the racing attributes good Group A cars are a very good investment. All three of these have had fulle rebuilds recently.

David Towe · 31 Oct 2005, 12:42 (Ref:1448337)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Falcadore

Bolwell still enterred his BMW at Lakeside as late as about 89/90 brian to buying a pair of Longhurst Sierras which then shed more wheels between them at Bathurst that year than fenders and rear guards were bent at Bathurst this year.

Interesting coincidence, the scrutineer that was the first to sign the log book for the car, was also the last to sign it before it went across the ditch.
Bolwell did run it at Bathurst in 1990.

racer69 · 1 Nov 2005, 00:39 (Ref:1448956)

Quote:

Originally Posted by David Towe

Got it in one, it is my old car, the Bolwell rollover car. The other 2 are the 325s that JPS built in 85/86. One of them won the Amscar series IIRC.

Certainly did, Longhurst won the 1986 AMSCAR Series in the 325i.

That 323i was the car Tony Longhurst made his 'regular' debut for with the JPS team in 1985 (he was of course part of the team in late-84), though not running JPS colours.

I notice the Paul Morris/Joachim Winkelhock BMW M3 Evo 2 in the backround from Bathurst 1993. Who owns it these days?

David Towe · 1 Nov 2005, 07:10 (Ref:1449070)

The Diet Coke M3 evo is also in NZ but AFAIK is not for sale. Sorry I don't know who owns it but could find out if you'd like me to.

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