The MSA & Championship Co-ordination

[andy97]

Anyone heard any rumours about the output from the MSA's championship co-ordination meeting? I understand that it was due to be held on the 12 July.

Hopefully something positive has been done to alleviate the problem of too many poorly supported championships and small grids.

[johnw]

No

[kickstart]

I read in Circuit Driver that the meeting was supposed to be this week and that they were considering culling series that have suffered with lack of numbers. I really hope they do actually do something about this as there are far too many series given the number of drivers.

[Ian Sowman]

The problem is, they can kill championships but we still get series, such as that for the TVR Car Club. It doesn't truly rationalise anything.

[R59]

It's like trimming the heads off of the mythical hydra while equipped with nothing more than a swiss army knife!

Rob.

[tazracer]

Originally posted by Ian Sowman
The problem is, they can kill championships but we still get series, such as that for the TVR Car Club. It doesn't truly rationalise anything.

Whilst we all agree that UK Motorsport has its problems

I think its unfair to single out THE TVRCC Challenge. Its not a new series its in its 5th season. Especially as as a series its put some dramatic changes in since last season to boost the grids now allowing just about any tvr within its new class structure,and like anything it takes time to adjust.

Ok so its only a series but last year we consistantly ran with more cars than the majority of the championship races on the same billing.

It would be more helpfull if people provided usefull proposals rather than just slagging things off.

Im convinced the route of the problem is the charging model used for the circuits that leads to just about nil promotion of uk motorsport.

If the organisers dont get the gate money they dont promote an event.

I drove past Cadwell park on a bank holiday weekend, there was obviously an event on, but even driving past you had no idea what cars?, Bikes, Trackday not a single sign. Heck if it was a car boot sale there would be signs for miles and an add in the local paper...

The Biggest thing holding back UK motorsport is promotion. This sport needs a lot of money and without spectators to bring direct funds through tickets and indirect through sponsorship, all the money comes from the pocket of the drivers, so i think i deserve the choice of what I drive and if an organising club think they can make enough money giving us a track slot then thats up to them.


Its no use just saying that championships/ series dont have enough cars. you need to look at the cause ( unless ofcourse your in Government when this type of thinking wouldnt occur to you )

SO suggestions please not Slagging off


Graham out this weekend in the Pink Tasmin supporting not just the TVRCC series But the Southern Sports and Saloon series as well.

[Ian Sowman]

Hey, I wasn't slagging the TVRCC Challenge off at all - it was just the first example that popped into my head, because it is quite a well known one (so actually a compliment!). I think it is great that it is now more open to other TVRs, and hopefully we will see more cars out soon.

Out of interest - would the TVRCC be happy to include cars from other marques of a similar performance in order to further bolster grid numbers?

[tazracer]

Originally posted by Ian Sowman
Out of interest - would the TVRCC be happy to include cars from other marques of a similar performance in order to further bolster grid numbers?

I dont have a problem with it but then im just a racer not involved in the organisation.

The regs do have an invitation class, intended for the TVR cars that dont fit the proper class structure, so THere is a possible opening there for other Sports cars to come and play. Although personally id prefer it if they fitted into our class structure which is now power to weight limited using data loggers.

At the end of the Day the Problems facing Motorsport are somthing we all need to work on and offer sugestions.


I just want somewhere to Play with the tasmin in an environment where its competitive. Unfortunetly for me im still running an old class car with the restrictive engine mods ( im even about 30bhp down on the class rules) so im restricted in where else i can play due to the size of the engine and the low power. i.e . im going to get stuffed in the sports and saloon race, im in the same class as even the Turbo Tasmins

One thing i will say about the us TVR guys is that as we were invited to join the Sports& saloon race about 10 of us have put in for that as well as our own race, almost doubling that grid...




Graham

[greenamex2]

Wasn't the purpose of chopping of the Hyrda's heads to try and kill it???? Worrying analogy Rob.

Once again we come to the subject of opening up series/championships to additional competitors via rule changes and/or mergers. The BRSCC have made a start with their all encompassing Saloon car series (even though it now seems to include Elises!). Can we please have more of the same?

Like the TVR boys some of us Toyo mod prods have also double/triple entered for the Race and track car race swelling it's numbers to a full grid. We get three races for about two hundred quid, the club gets some more money and the spectator sees races with lots more cars in. EVERYBODY WINS!

I am sure at this point Racing59 is going to re-iterate the reduction in the variation in regulations which I believe the above example demonstrates would be a very good thing. It would also make series merging simpler and ensure that people can still RACE.

[Rod Birley]

It is no secret that Formula Saloons, in its present format, will not run next year. Instead, there may be a select number of Open saloon events, an example of which will be at Brands on July 24th. Also there may be 3 or 4 Super Touring weekends, inviting drivers from abroad to join in (as seen at Snetterton on July 3rd/4th).

[andy97]

Amalgamating several series into Open events, Formula Libre or via the medium of an Invitation classes seems to be the way ahead for numerous categories of racing.

Mind you I do think that part of the problem is the club & funding structure itself, but then we can hardly expect the clubs to vote for their own demise/ lower influence can we?!

[R59]

Denis said:

I am sure at this point Racing59 is going to re-iterate the reduction in the variation in regulations

No I'm not. I've said it enough already.

The Open Saloons idea is probably the shot in the arm that was needed, as are the Super Touring weekends.

All you need to do then is kill of the ailing championships properly.
The scythe needs sharpening, and it needs doing now!

And as graham (tazracer) pointed out, promotion - proper promotion, is required. It's no use advertising in Motorsport News / Autosport, that's preaching to the converted, a bit like standing up in the Vatican and extolling the virtues of Catholicism! They need to advertise in local and national press. Most local papers have a "what's on" section.

Cadwell used to have a sign board at the entrance which gave simple details of what was on, but I bet that got changed for a "dial our premium rate number for details" - as if people do that!

With FS gone, there will be no National A grade saloon car championship. The "ladder" thus has a gaping hole in the rungs.

I notice that talk of the "ladder" has gone from the press. They seem to have sorted out the single seaters & sports cars, but the saloons was left .......... waiting..... for the decision of the open saloons feeder for the BTCC. Not that anyone in TOCA takes any notice of talent in the lesser categories, only in the size of the budget presented at the test day - 3 seconds off the pace, who cares, one million reasons for hiring you.....

Cynically.

Rob.

[tazracer]

>>>>>Cadwell used to have a sign board at the entrance which gave simple details of what was on, but I bet that got changed for a "dial our premium rate number for details" - as if people do that!<<<<<


Nope not even that. The only places i've seen a whats on next board is outside the entrance to Croft and Mallory, both hardly places your going to drive past and notice.

[avro]

Two points made by Rod I feel I must challenge, firstly Formula Saloons will have races this year, my understanding is that the races on Aug 7th and 8th will secure a good grid of cars and if that works possibly Donnington.

Secondly how can we achieve any amalgamation or reduction of saloon series when individuals ie Rod along with the BRSCC organise a saloon race at Brands the day before the BRSCC's own open saloon race (Euro Saloons) at Cadwell Park on the Sunday, sorry but its not right, sorry if you are not organising / backing it Rod but thats what I am hearing.

You all keep banging on about small grids but there are a few that will organise races to suit a limited number of people living south of the Thames and sod the rest of you.

And included in that are the BRSCC, have one series and back it, that means not sanctioning or assisting any other races in that category on that weekend.

[yeltneb]

Avro I think you are totally wrong in your challenge to Rod.
Firstly he said Formula Saloons would not be around next year, he didn,t say there would not be anymore races this year.
Secondly I think its a bit rich moaning about other series when the one thing that the country did not need was the Euro Saloons. The organisers of this ill conceived idea state that it is a Championship for cars that do not have anywhere else to race, however it seems that every car that has turned out has somewhere else to race. It is also more than a little bit cheeky that on their site they mention that cars from a fair few other existing Championships are eligible. A clear case of attempting to poach cars.
It is also extraordinary that there are 10 classes and that some are on slicks and some on road tyres making the speed differential potentially dangerous.
It seems that all you have done in your post is try to have a pop at Rod. I am no fan of his but he does seem to spend a lot of his free time in putting together a good deal for drivers. What do you do apart from have a dig ?

[djinvicta]

As I appear to be the only sponsor on here; Im the one that helps Peter Thurston have tyres; spend money when were shoved into gravel traps at Paddock Bend; and all the other bits you guys now of. I sponsor Pete because we have "fun" motor racing. BUT, I still look at the poor turnout of spectators at Brands on Saturday meets, let alone Sundays, and if i did not have the "bug" for the last 40 years, would have pulled out years ago. Were racing in the Thunder next year with 3 cars. My business does not gain anything by motor racing, however far Pete goes sideways; the only customer Ive had is PA Motorsport from all this. Now if someone has some good suggestions on how to get people through the gates, lets here it, and Ill back em all the way. I stay with Peter, (9 years now, and thank God Ive never counted how much its cost) because hes bloody good at what he does on a race track and to us its still a fun sport. Id like to see encouragement for bigger sponsors, only going to happen when crowds return. Lets have some ideas and Ill throw money at it. (dont tell Peter)

[djinvicta]

AND!!! As for Rod; the guy does some brilliant unrewarded work at Brands to keep Saloons and other racing going there. Im the first to applaud any win he gets there, but his WRC has never kissed door handles with the Prelude YET!!

[tazracer]

Blimey a Sponsor so they do exist and pay what they promise....We salute you...

Your comments back up my thoughts on the low grids. what we need is people watching.

How do we get people through the gates..

It must be a combination, of promotion,realistic pricing (£1 for a mars bar at rockingham come on!!!),good timetabling and good entertaining racing.

how do we put all this together..

[djinvicta]

God knows how we do it. But it needs ALL you guys at the sharp end to sort it and lobby the promoters, and there are too many of them. PS; seen the TVRs at Lydden and they are worth a look, specially a 25 stone guy that throws it into the Elbow. Well Done!!

[avro]

Yeltneb, Point taken on the Formula Saloons but with regard to my second point I stand by it, its not soley pointed at Rod but mainly the BRSCC, if an organising club advertises and promotes a championship as a run what you bring series then they should back it to the hilt, offering drivers a race on the same weekend at a circuit like Brands will only reduce entries at both events.

If the BRSCC worked closer with us the paying racers they could have joined the races at brands, cancelled the Euro Saloons at Cadwell (because the majority of entries at Brands would not have raced at Cadwell) and had two split races with big grids, just what everybody keeps banging on about

[Woolley]

Originally posted by racing59
I notice that talk of the "ladder" has gone from the press. They seem to have sorted out the single seaters.....

They added an extra rival in FBMW, thus further undermining the existing two series, which was already one more than needed - hardly sorted out in my book.

The only answer is amalgamate. Where there is a low supported series, find something with similar lap times and mix them. The way to do that in the first place is to restrict the number of permits issued on any week-end. If there aren't so many days available, then like NASCAR drivers chasing the draft, organisers will actively seek out complimentary partners in order to be able to run at all.

Fewer meetings means bigger grids, more marshals and a more satisfying day out for everyone.

And on the subject of promotion, why aren't club raceday vouchers handed out to anyone attending a GP or Touring Car race? Who cares if they're not paying to begin with, they'll buy programmes, food and drink, and maybe get hooked on real racing.

[AndyF]

Originally posted by Woolley

And on the subject of promotion, why aren't club raceday vouchers handed out to anyone attending a GP or Touring Car race? Who cares if they're not paying to begin with, they'll buy programmes, food and drink, and maybe get hooked on real racing.

That seems like a great idea to me!!

[Rod Birley]

The BRSCC racing calendar 2004, a piece of grey paper pinned to my office wall, does not show championship 23, Le Mans motorsport Euro saloon cars, having a round this weekend. The meeting at Brands only came about because of the cancellation of Formula saloons at Pembrey. Most drivers are not keen on travelling far this year, this was a result of a survey carried out by the BARC local centre. However, when you have a series based in the south east that is struggling to find opportunities to race at Brands, you have to take what you are offered.The Alfa Romeos, Fiats and Super Coupes were not targeted for entries (all racing at Cadwell), whereas the Castle Combe saloons were (they have a seven week gap in their calender).

[johnw]

djinvicta
Thanks for sponsoring.
See numerous other threads aimed at getting spectators through the gates.
Main problem is that the circuits get the the gate money, rather than the organising clubs, so there is no incentive for them.

I suggested to a cicuit owner that we racers promote meetings and take the gate money. Whilst this hasn't been ruled out, the starting point for income (i.e. how many tickets are currently bought for club meetings) is in dispute.

Agree with everyone else here that no one is going to come and watch until we put on an entertaining spectacle. Full grids has to be a minimum starting point. We club racers can do something about this, by combining series ourselves. Unless we do it, there is little point in complaining about the situation.

[ss_collins]

one wonders how many PM's djinvicta just got from clubbies after sponsorship...