|
||||||||||
|
||||||||||
18 Oct 2011, 01:55 (Ref:2973060) | #1 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,299
|
2012 yr of the hybrid in LMP1 for WEC/LeMans?
So with the ACO regs announced regarding hybrids in P1, Toyota coming with a hybrid, Peugeot testing theirs, and Audi rumoured to be working on a new version of the R18 with some sort of energy recovery, could 2012 be a landmark year in P1? We could have 3 factories battling at Le Mans all with hybrids. And Porsche is waiting in the wings for 2014, will there be others? This is road-relevant technology so it has to appeal to the manufacturers. We could be on the dawn of a golden age in the top class at Le Mans again.
Is the ALMS really the leader in green racing seeing as none of these will be entries there other than WEC round(s)? The big battle now in P1 moving forward, albeit still diesel vs petrol, could turn more into hybrid vs internal combustion only. This could be a game changer and surely (sadly as an Aston fan) Aston will be reconsidering the viability of a shoestring budget P1 effort. No diesel and no hybrid will make any effort mid pack at best. Imagine being a Rebellion or an Oak, unless regs change further you will need to have either a diesel and/or a hybrid system to be competitive. The factories won't be keen to lease these out so other routes will have to be taken - Hope Polevision, the Williams system, etc. Making it prohibitively expensive. Why would anyone fund the Deltawing? Less weight, smaller engine, big deal. Isn't that what P2 used to be? That's not technology, that's efficiency. Garage 56 should be for new technologies IMO. I think the future propulsion technologies are coming fast, next year even, and deserved a separate thread. The future may finally be here. Last edited by Canada ALMS fan; 18 Oct 2011 at 02:01. |
||
|
18 Oct 2011, 02:35 (Ref:2973064) | #2 | ||
Racer
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 432
|
Has it EVER been the leader?
The world championship battle (P1) will be hybrid A vs hybrid P vs hybrid T. The non-diesels/non-hybrids would only aspire to be treated as a separate, although unofficial, class. Or, on the contrary, the 2012 might be the last year that non-hybrids could have a shot at the overall victory, granted that the championship contenders won't be reliable enough to actually finish the races |
||
|
18 Oct 2011, 03:51 (Ref:2973077) | #3 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,261
|
Yeah, the word of the year in ACO racing next year is definitely going to be hybrid. There have been hybrids before, but none of them were ready for primetime. Looking beyond 2012, how will the ACO respond? I think Audi was right to question the ACO the other day. It seems that the ACO is confused as to whether it should be a wide open competition of technology or if it should be a BoP league (AKA "Bush league"). Right now they are trending toward the BoP side while maintaining a wide open facade. However, with more major factory teams coming in, the ACO may have no choice but to ignore/laugh off the privateer's complaints (which is a positive IMO). The next bigger issue is how the ACO deals with any potential gaps in performance between major factory teams. I don't think we can expect 3, 4, or 5 factories to run as close as Audi and Peugeot has. There may be existing controversies about fuel, but also about hybrid technologies. I'd like to see a hand off approach, but this is a potentially major issue the ACO will have to deal with.
Anyway, if you read that Audi link, perhaps Audi is still on the fence about hybrids for 2012. We'll see. There seem to be some issues with the rules that Audi is pointing out. I'm sure they're doing their calculations. Reliability is an issue as well. We know Toyota's intentions and Peugeot seems to be trending toward the Hybrid4. We'll see. I'm sure they're considering the same things that Audi is even if their hybrid technology is different from Audi's. As for the Garage 56, I agree with you completely. As for the ALMS being the global green leader, well, that is just a slogan. A slogan that isn't so accurate. It'll still be greener compared to other non-ACO competition and the hybrids will show up at the combo ACO events (albeit maybe not in 2012 and who knows about Sebring and Petit's future within the WEC) so I guess the ALMS still has something to hang on to. Still, I would not make "green" be the main slogan for the ALMS unless they are referring to it being green compared to other American series. |
|
|
18 Oct 2011, 04:44 (Ref:2973087) | #4 | |||
Veteran
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,299
|
Quote:
We have come a long way, a couple of years ago there were those worried about the future of sportscars, now we are worried how to deal with so many works efforts in P1. A lot the auto industry feels disenfranchised by F1 and Le Mans style racing is the benificiary due to the relevance of the technolgies to the street. Personally I find all the technological advancement fascinating and look forward to the innovation this high level of competition in sportscars will bring. Look at all the different variations of car Audi has already produced over the past 3 seasons. Last edited by Canada ALMS fan; 18 Oct 2011 at 04:49. |
|||
|
18 Oct 2011, 06:20 (Ref:2973097) | #5 | |
Race Official
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,102
|
||
|
18 Oct 2011, 07:49 (Ref:2973132) | #6 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,354
|
|||
|
18 Oct 2011, 07:57 (Ref:2973137) | #7 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 4,354
|
If Pug and Audi are going the Hybrid route it would make a lot of sense for them to put one or two non hybrid cars in the hands of privateers such as Oreca so they would be in a position to pick up the pieces if the hybrids run into trouble.
|
||
|
18 Oct 2011, 12:33 (Ref:2973247) | #8 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 3,834
|
For AMR, there IS one hope. ZYTEK.
They are hybrid developers, for various road car manufacturers. It's amazing just how many Hybrid Engineers are being sought over at Gaydon, just now. Many slots, unfilled, for months, as these guys are pretty scarce, and highly valued... I can see Zytek's little factory unit in Banbury seeing a few visitors from AMR (5 minutes walk away!) soon. Though whether it bears fruit, now there's another question! |
||
__________________
Tim Yorath Ecurie Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch Fan of "the sacred monster Christophe Bouchut"... |
18 Oct 2011, 12:38 (Ref:2973251) | #9 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 508
|
If LMP1 goes full hybrid, i'll stop watching. I have better things to do with my life. Better classes of auto racing to continue watching.
|
||
__________________
Brendon Hartley, Chris van der Drift, Mitch Evans, Richie Stanaway (and maybe) Nick Cassidy. New Zealand's F1 future! |
18 Oct 2011, 14:52 (Ref:2973293) | #10 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,795
|
||
|
18 Oct 2011, 14:58 (Ref:2973296) | #11 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 8,738
|
If the new LMP1 rules attract more manufacturers and make the sport increasingly relevant for road cars, why stop watching?
|
|
|
18 Oct 2011, 17:27 (Ref:2973384) | #12 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,500
|
Quote:
Such systems will be off-the-shelf from the likes of Williams and Zytek, the Drayson electric car also has plenty of systems that could be supplied. Last edited by JAG; 18 Oct 2011 at 17:35. |
||
|
18 Oct 2011, 19:54 (Ref:2973481) | #13 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,763
|
So , can we expect to see MIK Corse kicking some butt this year ?
There is a rumour that they will contest the WEC with a Zytek/Hybrid ..... turn key car , should be magnificent !!! |
||
|
18 Oct 2011, 19:58 (Ref:2973483) | #14 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 931
|
There were lots of people saying similar things when the diesels turned up. Sports car racing has always been about innovation. It will be interesting to see how competitive the hybrids and the delta wing will be when they hit the track. Some work, some don't.
|
||
__________________
Go the mighty Flying Lizards "A good way to gauge the strength of your argument is to weight the quality of the rebuttals. Strong arguments have low quality rebuttals." David Heinemeier Hansson |
18 Oct 2011, 21:01 (Ref:2973513) | #15 | ||||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
|
Quote:
It is pretty much universally assumed that they didn't get the Balance correct in the first place, and still don't have it correct going into next year. Much more knowledgeable people than I have discussed the topic. http://www.mulsannescorner.com/newssept11.html Quote:
If they don't get it right the first time, shouldn't they reserve the right to fix things? |
||||
|
18 Oct 2011, 22:08 (Ref:2973542) | #16 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 3,565
|
The one big risk for the manufacturers if there are 4 or 5 of them if one of them does a very good job in their energy recovery and storage system.
This will give such a car a very significant advantage leaving the opposition looking very poor. Such a situation could lead to manufacturers leaving very quickly as it could take a couple of years to catch up. |
|
|
18 Oct 2011, 23:25 (Ref:2973582) | #17 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 508
|
|||
__________________
Brendon Hartley, Chris van der Drift, Mitch Evans, Richie Stanaway (and maybe) Nick Cassidy. New Zealand's F1 future! |
19 Oct 2011, 00:13 (Ref:2973599) | #18 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,232
|
||
|
19 Oct 2011, 00:26 (Ref:2973605) | #19 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 6,958
|
|||
|
19 Oct 2011, 00:54 (Ref:2973611) | #20 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 6,232
|
Quote:
|
||
|
19 Oct 2011, 01:19 (Ref:2973619) | #21 | ||||
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,261
|
Quote:
Quote:
There's the possibility of balance of technology and then there is balance of performance on a team by team (or car to car) basis. This line is blurred because of the fact that the "have" teams are running one type of fuel while the "have nots" are running the other type of fuel. Things will change in the future and another layer of technology, hybrids, will be added. Some teams will have hybrids, some will not. The teams that have hybrids will use different types of hybrid systems. Potentially, these different hybrid systems will have performance differences on the track. How is this dealt with is the key question to me. Quote:
I'm not sure if we live in an era where a team can dominate Le Mans and win it by two or three laps. Ok, it's one thing if that happens thanks to a fluke type deal (like Petit), but what happens if a team goes and stomps on the throughout the whole race? I think it would be outrage. Personally, I would congratulate the winners and/or criticize the losers. Others would probably claim rule outrage and demand changes. What is the ACO to do? Tell the fans, factories, and privateers to shut their pieholes and understand the word competition? Or do they go the "Made for TV" route? Unfortunately, attention spans are short and the ACO may feel compelled to try to make the whole 24 Hours (or 6 hours for regular races) a drama filled, action packed thriller just to keep people from switching the channel to see what's cooking on the Food Network or to watch reality shows of ex-sports car racer Bruce Jenner. I'm hoping the ACO keeps their eyes on the ball and does not worry about what everyone else is doing in a global sense, but we'll see how things play out. |
||||
|
19 Oct 2011, 01:59 (Ref:2973629) | #22 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,763
|
I think Zytek need to field their own team to showcase their product . Why leave it up to others .
I dont expect MIK Corse to do much . But thats not exactly doing Zytek any favours either , is it ? |
||
|
19 Oct 2011, 02:16 (Ref:2973630) | #23 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,500
|
Quote:
Without a hybrid component Ferrari will likely have to stop producing V12's as they'd struggle to pass future emmissions laws or deliver acceptable mileage. For the rest of us in the real world what chance have we got to run a performance car if the politicians make them prohibitively expensive to run. Beat them at their own game by using technology to keep the fun in motoring.If you follow them on twitter the hybrid has had extensive testing, the system is also being tested by Super GT and of course there are close links to Nissan which could extend to a P1 engine/hybrid link-up. |
||
|
19 Oct 2011, 02:41 (Ref:2973639) | #24 | |
Veteran
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,261
|
I guess that is the risk customer team suppliers have to take.
|
|
|
19 Oct 2011, 08:52 (Ref:2973731) | #25 | ||
Veteran
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 13,763
|
From the sound of the busniess their doing ..... their not short of a few bob . So , they really should be showcasing their product , imo .
|
||
|
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
[WEC] 2012 WEC Entries | JAG | ACO Regulated Series | 894 | 2 Feb 2012 14:49 |
2012 Privateer LMP1 Options | JAG | Sportscar & GT Racing | 26 | 11 May 2011 23:49 |
2006 LMP1/2005(6)Hybrid: The difference? | Bentley03 | Sportscar & GT Racing | 5 | 14 Jul 2005 00:16 |