2023 Launch/Pre-Season testing

[chillibowl]

Alfa Romeo - TBD, TBD
AlphaTauri - Feb 11th, NYC Livery Launch
Alpine - Feb 16th, London
Aston Martin - Feb 13th, Silverstone
Ferrari - Feb 14th, TBD
McLaren - Feb 13th, MTC
Mercedes - Feb 15th, Silverstone
Haas - TBD, TBD
Red Bull - Feb 3rd, NYC
Williams - Feb 6th, Online Livery launch

Pre-Season testing - Feb 23rd to 25th, Bahrain

[chillibowl]

bit surprised by the early RB date. certainly dont suspect them to show their hand but maybe will also just be a livery launch?

[Aysedasi]

A livery launch for RBR? Yes, I can see how that could be done early. Like the day after the last GP?

[Richard C]

Thanks for starting the thread. I do expect most if not all launches to not be the real cars. Mixture of new livery on old cars, renderings, cars with mocked up parts that are only for show or combinations of the above. But in the end, it will not stop us and everyone else from speculating as to the meaning of what they show!

I am looking forward to the 2023 season!

Richard

[chillibowl]

for sure we will speculate wildly

but between the budget cap (reduced for this year to 135m i believe), longer season, time between the last race and first test, stability in the rule set etc...i do wonder how much time and effort teams are still willing to spend on misleading their opponents (for about a week or two)?

if you are RB with a reduced budget and wind tunnel time, how much can you even scrutinize every new part by the other teams anymore? then do it again after the first test, first race, and so on for the remainder of the season?

anyway, love the cap and hope austerity means less launch day mock up shenanigans.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

for sure we will speculate wildly

but between the budget cap (reduced for this year to 135m i believe), longer season, time between the last race and first test, stability in the rule set etc...i do wonder how much time and effort teams are still willing to spend on misleading their opponents (for about a week or two)?

if you are RB with a reduced budget and wind tunnel time, how much can you even scrutinize every new part by the other teams anymore? then do it again after the first test, first race, and so on for the remainder of the season?

anyway, love the cap and hope austerity means less launch day mock up shenanigans.

First, I think marketing is excluded from the caps? So teams could have a big splash if they wanted. But I think you point is how much "physical" content (that probably would count to the cap) will they create just for the launch events. Or maybe how much can they spy and copy?

I think if they have staff on hand, they can always look at stuff (photos, etc.) and think "What are they doing here?" and it may not cost much extra if at all. I say this without knowing how much extra time the design engineers might have to look at other teams work.

I don't think the teams have the money to see something on Monday and have a copy of it on the car the next weekend. I do think there will always be this process of look at other teams, perform analysis, copy if there is value, try on car. Previously they could do this regularly and quickly. Today, they probably have to be more selective and slowly due to cost.

Richard

[S griffin]

I don’t think marketing comes under the cap either. Most teams tend to keep launches low key anyway, as there’s no reason to spend that much anyway.

I don’t think teams worry about other teams copying bits off their car, as they still have to make it work. The best designers and engineers know how to make it effective. Plus teams have their own unique ways anyway. They only use what can work on their car, not what works on another car.

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by Richard Casto

I think if they have staff on hand, they can always look at stuff (photos, etc.) and think "What are they doing here?" and it may not cost much extra if at all. I say this without knowing how much extra time the design engineers might have to look at other teams work.

true that would not cost very much at all...more so if the goal is just to get something banned then they wouldnt have to copy/build it themselves per say but just do enough observational analysis on it to raise questions about legality.

the Merc DAS system comes to mind...dont think any of the teams had to build out that system themselves in order to convince FOM that it should be ultimately banned under the (legitimate imo) defence of the budget cap/prevent a spending war in that area.

so no doubt any lead time you give the other teams/FOM the more you expose yourself so perhaps there is still a very strong reason for obfuscation during the launch.

Originally Posted by S griffin

I don’t think teams worry about other teams copying bits off their car, as they still have to make it work. The best designers and engineers know how to make it effective. Plus teams have their own unique ways anyway. They only use what can work on their car, not what works on another car.

very valid point. Merc had issues last season but it didnt seem like they could just fix their problem by seeing what RB was doing and copy that. their respective design philosophies were different enough that Merc required/requires a solution unique to its car.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by chillibowl

Merc had issues last season but it didnt seem like they could just fix their problem by seeing what RB was doing and copy that. their respective design philosophies were different enough that Merc required/requires a solution unique to its car.

It's a case of "we can't do that to our car - can we get it banned?".

[S griffin]

Well a lot of teams have done that if they find they can't implement on their car. Has always been the case

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by S griffin

Well a lot of teams have done that if they find they can't implement on their car. Has always been the case

True - but with the budget cap is it more likely to be attempted now? Teams can't just throw money at updating their car in season now, so any 'baked in' problems are likely to be there for the season. This makes removing your opponents perceived advantages more beneficial - it takes away the advantage and forces them to spend money on updates to make their car legal (reducing budget for other updates).

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

True - but with the budget cap is it more likely to be attempted now? Teams can't just throw money at updating their car in season now, so any 'baked in' problems are likely to be there for the season. This makes removing your opponents perceived advantages more beneficial - it takes away the advantage and forces them to spend money on updates to make their car legal (reducing budget for other updates).

no doubt there could very well be tactical advantages, a type of financial warfare if you will, by playing the game this way.

[Richard C]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

True - but with the budget cap is it more likely to be attempted now? Teams can't just throw money at updating their car in season now, so any 'baked in' problems are likely to be there for the season. This makes removing your opponents perceived advantages more beneficial - it takes away the advantage and forces them to spend money on updates to make their car legal (reducing budget for other updates).

I think we will see more of this. I personally think both the FIA and Liberty generally want there to be creative solutions, but "not overly creative". They probably are OK with a team bringing a solution that gives them an advantage for the duration of a season, but they don't want it to be so radical that it would mean other teams would need to refactor large swaths of their current solution. This is because teams generally want to keep working solutions year to year. So evolution vs. revolution is probably the unsaid goal. So for example a 2023 innovation that others teams can generally easily fold into their 2024 car will be OK. But something that is painful to replicate for someone else in 2024 might get banned.

With that being said, team, will probably cry foul on most any new ideas that another team has come up with that just is painful for them to replicate during the season. With "painful" = "costly". If you can get the other guys stuff banned, then it is THEM not YOU who has to spend money in an unexpected/unplanned way.

Richard

[coppice]

From what I was reading in the Times the other day about Aston Martin's (continuing ) dismal financial position , it is no surprise to learn that the launch will be at Silverstone . On a layby on the A43 I assume , with Alonso buying the bacon butties for whatever dignitaries bother to turn up -mayor of Towcester, that sort of thing...

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by coppice

From what I was reading in the Times the other day about Aston Martin's (continuing ) dismal financial position , it is no surprise to learn that the launch will be at Silverstone . On a layby on the A43 I assume , with Alonso buying the bacon butties for whatever dignitaries bother to turn up -mayor of Towcester, that sort of thing...

If there's bacon, we'll all be there, surely?

[chillibowl]

early days still, but AM might just be the team i am most excited for this season. new facilities, staff they poached a few years ago now full time at AM, and i must admit high hopes for Alonso this year....plus bacon!

[chillibowl]

Williams firing up the engines.

https://twitter.com/WilliamsRacing/s...18664742277120

like the #WeAreWilliams hashtag...is that new?

[chillibowl]

Alfa teaser of the livery i guess?



bit odd but i guess it suggests a black and red look?

[chillibowl]

Alfa Romeo - Feb 7th, Zurich
AlphaTauri - Feb 11th, NYC Livery Launch
Alpine - Feb 16th, London
Aston Martin - Feb 13th, Silverstone
Ferrari - Feb 14th, TBD
McLaren - Feb 13th, MTC
Mercedes - Feb 15th, Silverstone
Haas - Jan 31st, Online
Red Bull - Feb 3rd, NYC
Williams - Feb 6th, Online Livery launch

dates are all out with Haas happening in a few days!

good times!

[chillibowl]

teams with new team principles:

Ferrari: Vasseur
Mclaren: Stella
AM: Krack
Williams: Vowles
Alfa: Bravi (although i guess they are calling him something else?)

most new TPs in one year?

[E.B]

So Haas the first cab off the rank today.... albeit I suspect just a livery launch and not the new VF23 itself. 2.00PM GMT is the time I read for it to 'kick off'.

[steve_r]

They have a lead sponsor, which is nice.





Shades of the old Parmalat Brabham with the Black & white colour scheme.

[Mike Harte]

Surely they were blue and white, weren't they?

[chillibowl]

Originally Posted by steve_r

They have a lead sponsor, which is nice.

very nice indeed! i like that its for a company that provides a readily available consumer service and one not likely to get banned!

as for the colour scheme...my first take is that its a bit basic. 2001(?) Minardi livery is what came to mind to me.

[Richard C]

At the moment I like the livery on the Haas. As said above, basic, but I tend to think some of the more modern liveries are busy as "try too hard" to be clever.

Richard