Opposition to Philly CC Race

[Amar7605]

Here are excerpts from an article by Randy Pennell, Associated Press Writer.

A proposal to bring auto racing to Philadelphia's Benjamin Franklin Parkway faces opposition in City Hall and from the institutions that would be affected by the estimated $800,000 in renovations costs.

Pedro Ramos, city managing director, called the Champ Car proposal ``thoughtful'' but said it raised concerns.

``Our next step is to communicate formally with Champ Car organizers and see if they want to jointly explore other venues,'' Ramos said.

[indycool]

I don't think they announced the Philly race, or Beijing, because they're not done. Seems to be a couple problems to solve both places.

[Snrub]

It stands to reason that there would be opposition. I'm sure there's opposition in every city that a street race is held. If you don't stand to gain from it and it will inconvienence, you'll probably object.

Sort of off topic, but the local drag strip has was sued by its neighbours. It's near a little nothing village and has been there for a long time. Recently homes have been build near by the strip and the people living there sucessfully sued the strip! Who would have thought it would be noisy to live next to a drag strip? Could I build next to a freeway and sue the city?

Three road courses in Ontario are having fights to continue to exist. That only leaves two others (Mosport and Shannonville). One near Ottawa may be shut down before it ever opens. It looks like the local council may change the zoning after recently approving the track! The reason being is that there is more tax revenue from houses.

What's my point? Lots of people don't like racing and will try to stop it.

[JohnSSC]

Well, to be fair here, I do not think it is opposition to racing itself. It is locating the racing in what is essentially a cultural/museum district. I think it would be great to have a race in a city as big as Philly, but they just need to work out a better site.

Museums and such depend on admission fees to a large extent to support thier budgets and to essentially close things down for a weekend would be a hardship for them. Tourists come to see those sites in particular and to lose that traffic could mean a big impact on their bottom-line. Don't forget, a lot of performers and stage productions must be booked well in advance. Picking a random date may result in a big conflict with another event.

There has to be somewhere else in town that has the space needed to lay out a circuit.

[macdaddy]

Like a city airport?

(I'm growing to love those!)

[paul-collins]

Originally Posted by Snrub

It stands to reason that there would be opposition. I'm sure there's opposition in every city that a street race is held. If you don't stand to gain from it and it will inconvienence, you'll probably object.

Three road courses in Ontario are having fights to continue to exist. That only leaves two others (Mosport and Shannonville). One near Ottawa may be shut down before it ever opens. It looks like the local council may change the zoning after recently approving the track! The reason being is that there is more tax revenue from houses.

Are you talking about Calabogie, Snrub? Oh, and Mosport will never be shut down by neighbours as it's in the middle of the Oak Ridges Moraine, so there'll be no development in the area. Phew!

This problem in Philly sounds a bit like the Washington ALMS race to me.

[Liz]

Militant whining by blue-state types who move to the city for peace and quiet has always been with us. We even used to get people in Toronto demanding that the Champ Cars go through emission control like road cars before they are allowed to race. The other day when I was walking in from the subway there was a woman whining that the fiddle and accordion duo of buskers was "too loud! Everything in the city is too loud!"

I hope they will get this straightened out -- perhaps a meeting with the museum people to explain, er, offer them money, would help.

[JohnSSC]

Well really, I don't think that if your urban planning has resulted in a "cultural center" that trying to hold a CC race there is what the planners had in mind! It is not "militant whining by blue-state types," whatever new sociological classification that is, it is actually a common sense question.

In urban planning one tends to create zones within the city where certain things occur. Sports, business, cultural are all things that at times really have no relation with the other. For example, you are not going to relocate an art museum right next door to the new football stadium. The users and the uses of those types of venues are incongruous to each other.

Further, it is not just a question of $$ - there are a lot of people who go to these places and they should not have to plan around a race to see an exhibit or hear a program that may be in the area for a limited time.

I agree with macdaddy here that the option to use the airport should be explored or barring that, Philly being a big-honkin' city there has to be an area that a street race could be set up relatively easily near say, the new stadium there. Wasn't the DC race held near RFK stadium? By all accounts that was a good event that handled cars and crowds well.

I will note that if they take care of the streets in Philly like they do here in Pittsburgh, you would have to repave every square inch of whatever site is chosen as we survive on a patchwork of concrete/asphalt/brick streets and avenues, plus a patchwork of patches! All thanks to the glorious freeze/thaw cycle here - and poor road maintenance, but I digress!

I wonder if there is an airport like Burke Lakefront in/near downtown Philly?

[Snrub]

Paul, yes I've heard that it is possible that they may end up ripping Calabogie up! Dunville has been under attack recentently, I'm not sure why. Cayuga has had a number of issues, I can't remember them all. For some reason the road course seems to be under assault, but not the longstanding oval and drag strip.

Blue states and hippies aren't the problem Liz, it's just people in general. Seeing as Champ Cars run on methanol, they probably have good emmissions, although the HCs and NOs would probably be high. Emmissions testing isn't done to improve the environment, it's used by politicians so that they can say that they are doing something for the envinronment when they aren't really.

[mp356a]

Originally Posted by Liz

Militant whining by blue-state types who move to the city for peace and quiet has always been with us. We even used to get people in Toronto demanding that the Champ Cars go through emission control like road cars before they are allowed to race. The other day when I was walking in from the subway there was a woman whining that the fiddle and accordion duo of buskers was "too loud! Everything in the city is too loud!"

I hope they will get this straightened out -- perhaps a meeting with the museum people to explain, er, offer them money, would help.

Philly is currently too corrupt to hold an event like this. They will not understand it and once they get done trying to squeeze CART for every dime they can find (it's for the children), they'll lose interest, IMHO.

[mountainstar]

I can guarantee you that Happy Fernandez(one of the opposition) would sign off in a second to have a Dead concert on the streets, complete with dope smoking, vandalizing, mud pit loving trash from the suburbs who would decimate the entire area leaving all their rubbish and filth behind.

What is the definition of a 'cultural' event? I thought the Denver race last weekend had plenty of culture. Motor Racing is an artistic display of motion, color and sound.

Did anyone ever stop to think that a Champcar event may bring people downtown and expose them to the cultural and artistic wonders of Philadelphia and may draw their attention to such.

[Amar7605]

I agree with mountainstar, and as an added bonus to PR, couldn't Champ Car say that a percentage of the proceeds will be donated to the art community in Philly? Or better yet, donate some of the proceeds to art programs in local schools.

In this way, Champ Car is not just going to a city and taking over a part of it for a few days. It's a way to give back to the community and thanking them for allowing them to race.

And the PR wouldn't be bad either!

[indycool]

These street races just don't happen, voila! There are many mountains to climb, including the ones mentioned here. Champ Car should be in the business of collecting money to race, not spending it to race. KK might donate bucks to a charity, as in San Jose, but they're asking cities to pony up some bucks, too, and it's not an easy "call" for politicos to spend taxpayer dollars to have a race and somebody's ox is going to get gored by the discomfort of it. The idea is to disaffect as many businesses and people surrounding a course as possible.

[Liz]

Originally Posted by Amar7605

I agree with mountainstar, and as an added bonus to PR, couldn't Champ Car say that a percentage of the proceeds will be donated to the art community in Philly? Or better yet, donate some of the proceeds to art programs in local schools.

In this way, Champ Car is not just going to a city and taking over a part of it for a few days. It's a way to give back to the community and thanking them for allowing them to race.

And the PR wouldn't be bad either!

My thinking exactly. Offer them money to use in furthering the cultural uplift that they are trying to maintain, and work with them to shift any 'major event available only for a few days' to a few other days when there isn't any racing available. Maybe even offer some of these art museums etc. free advertising at the race, and point out to them that we are not untutored rednecks -- that Champ Car fans actually do attend, participate in and support the arts in our own communities. The demographic studies available can demonstrate that.

The local paper did point out to the emission-control whiners that the Champ Cars are not subject to emission control because they are too new.

[indycool]

Has anyone heard who would be the PROMOTER?

[Tim Northcutt]

Probably OWRS...or Paul Newman's business interests???

Good question....

[Amar7605]

Well Paul Newman is spearheading the initiative to have the race in Philly. Dave Despain mentioned something like that on Sunday night.

[JohnSSC]

It seems a shame that those seeking a sensible solution to something that would be a good thing for CC such as a race in a major metro area get branded as "whiners."

I think what is being said here is positive: no one is against a race in Philly. The question is have they picked a location in Philly that would not cost the city big $$ to prepare nor affect the other activities that go on in the city negatively. It can be done I think if everyone is a bit flexible.

As an example, here in Pittsburgh the Vintage Grand Prix is an event that runs through Schenley Park, which is located inside the City limits and adjacent to the Oakland neighborhood which contains 3 universities, Carnegie Library (Main Branch), the Carnegie Museum of Natural History and the the adjacent Art Museum. Every year this race attracts thousands, has a field that is completely booked (limited # of grid positions due to the track size) and it gets a buy-in from the local institutions as people come in droves and the institutions remain open benefitting from the foot traffic. It is a win-win for everyone including the Autism Society as the race is a benefit for that charity raising some millions over the last 20 years or so.

I think it would be great to have the race in Philly and it should be possible to do so by working on a cooperative arrangement where everyone benefits. If we can shoehorn a race here in a much smaller geographic area than Philly has to offer, with some effort it should be possible there.

Just because some folks there are opposed to the location does not make them opposed to the race. If the Vintage GP were moved 1 mile from it's current location it would be smack dab in the middle of not only the University of Pittsburgh's campus but a major teaching hospital, Children's Hospital and a myriad of businesses. The screaming against such a change would be enormous and I would agree with it. But as I noted, the present location not only makes for a terrific race, but it draws people into an area that has other things to offer without shutting down or isolating those places.

Why work against folks when you can work with them? Why not consider the charity angle as well - raise money for Newman's Kids or something as an added "giveback?"

[Liz]

Having heard a steady drumbeat from the locals who live downtown in Toronto, who are constantly screaming against everything from police helicopters (they'd rather die than listen to the noise) to the MI Toronto -- because they came to the city for peace and quiet, I am not convinced that there is any way to quiet the people who are crying against having this race where it is presently sited. If you move it to another location, the people there will cry. I believe it would be useful to try to soothe the people in the neighbourhood where they've already decided to put the venue, rather than moving into a whole new hornet's nest and having to start over.

I agree with the idea of a charity, but why not make it a fundraiser for one of the museums in the area that is claiming it will lose billions of dollars over a three day race weekend? As I've pointed out already, Champ Car people are patrons of the arts and might welcome a chance to do good for a deserving institution. Perhaps the deserving museum could have a party on Thursday night -- wine and cheese and mingle with Champ Car people and show off what they have to offer? I don't think there's a wall between culture and racing. Would it not be worth trying to parley with the people before we cut and run?

[Amar7605]

Liz, you make a great point. No matter where a race is held, there are always going to be a group of people who will complain. Even if you put a CC race out in the middle of the Mojave Desert, I am sure that there will be some people who will complain about something.

The idea here is that, yes, CC and the promoters will make money if a race is held. But they have to show the community that they are giving back as well. It's like a thank you for letting Champ Car come into the city and run a race.

[Snrub]

Off topic (but I'm going somewhere with this!): I really question the validity of police helicopters, so I can see why people would object to them. In London Ontario they used one for traffic enforcement - as in they stayed stationary in the air using a radar to pick off speeders! They rutinely patrolled my old low crime suburban neighbourhood for no particular reason and put the spotlight on me for fun when I was walking the dog. They clearly had nothing to do and the money could have been better spent on something else. It probably is usefull to have one in in all of Metro TO or 2-3 in LA. It's sort of like John said, there are ways in which something offensive can be used which people won't object to. Perhaps there is a legitimate reason to object to the race in that particular spot and all the effort would be better spent in a different area of the city.

[icemachine]

Snrub, at least its better than being picked out while in the backseat of a car behind the girlfriends old highschool in South Central Oshawa

[Liz]

They were chasing some people through my neighbourhood in downtown Toronto, with the police helicopter spotlight, and people were calling 911 and screaming at them to tell the helicopter to go away -- until they understood that they were chasing a pair of murderers. Then they got a little more reasonable about it. We have had 37 gun murders in Toronto and they are happening three or four a week now, and the helicopter helps catch them. It's a tool.

People don't move to the city for peace and quiet. People move to the city for excitement. And what could be more exciting than a race? Let's bring back the Targa Florio! Or the Gumball Rally!

[Amar7605]

I am sure that something will be worked out. I mean, if it is found that a CC race will generate millions of dollars of revenue for the city, then I am sure the government will find a solution.

[pferrf1]

Having personally seen how the race is set up in Surfer's paradise, basically invading a neighbourhood and how smoothly the set-up goes....there are clearly solutions ot the concerns. Think ofhte 'buried' section of track in Mexico City that only comes out for the Grand Prix.