Webber's spin-Button's aim

[gttouring]

during the late night replay's on SPEED of the F1 rain dance, I would like to compliment Webber, he was exemplary. What a fantastic drive, and He got points, and he missed that first spin in the 'parking lot' where everyone ate the tires. He did marvelous. I would love to see Jag on the podium, especially with weber. Of course that second spin did the race in but...can't save them all. And Button's little save correct and launch in to the tires, what happened there?

[shiny side up!]

Button had to correct the car so much while crossing the river of water that when he finally did get across and the car gained grip, the car's attitude was totally wrong and launched him into the tires. Nothing really he could do there...

[mac]

Does anyone know the actual cause of Webber's spin? My computer's been playing up and I haven't been able to read Jag's race report. Was it simply a case of aquaplaning?

[ASCII Man]

Oversteer coming out of the last turn which launched him into the wall.

[avsfan733]

He seemed to place the blame on old tires and heavy fuel having an adverse effect in the inconsistently wet conditions

[Glen]

The should all have been going very easy through there - when more than one (including JPM & Schumacher) had fallen foul of the same thing that should send a signal. Big shame about Button - he was having an excellent race... and excellent weekend in fact, which counts for nothing if you don't score points.

[Tristan]

Button was once again leagues ahead of his teammate. Terribly unlucky. When the car just aquaplanes like that there's not a lot you can do, even if you do snap on the oppo lock like he did.

[Jay]

I'm sorry, but you can't really call it unlucky. He ed up, as did the others that spun there. Auqa-planing happens because you put the car in a position where that could happen, not because the tires magically decide to loose grip for no reason. You drive through a huge puddle at too high a speed and what do you expect? 6 drivers spun there, but several more managed to get through there just fine.

[Tristan]

Yeah, but when the puddle varies by the second, it's a little unlucky. But yes, they WERE all going too fast, point taken. I have no beef with what happened. Great race, as far as I'm concerned!!

[BD]

Webber's save was fantastic!! I just about fell out of my seat watching it. I think the key to why some of the top drivers spun there was the changing conditions. Both Montoya and M. Schumacher are very aggressive. Every lap the corner is different. So if you are going too fast, theres not much you can do except try to keep the tires rotating, and point it away from the barrier. I think Verstappen saved it, but stalled or something. I'm not sure exactly.

[shiny side up!]

If 'saving it' means spinning out of control but not hitting anything, than both Jos and Webber did indeed save it (but Jos subsequently stalled).

[Tristan]

Yeah, "that save" ranks up there with Kimi at Spa last year as one of the greatest things I've ever seen anyone do in an F1 car!!

[garcon]

Originally posted by Jay
I'm sorry, but you can't really call it unlucky. He ed up, as did the others that spun there. Auqa-planing happens because you put the car in a position where that could happen, not because the tires magically decide to loose grip for no reason. You drive through a huge puddle at too high a speed and what do you expect? 6 drivers spun there, but several more managed to get through there just fine.

You ever driven on a wet track Jay?

No - thought not.

Aquaplaning is completely unpredictable, especially when the floor of the car is so low and flat it acts like a boat over more than 3mm of water. At turn 3, the water was running straight across the track - you couldn't drive round it, and as anyone who's ever raced on wet tarmac knows very well, each lap is a whole new experience...

[Raven]

For saves of that nature nothing beats Bruno Junqueira's "save" at Nurburgring 2000 in the F3000 race. As I remember, he lost it, went around, over the curbs, across the grass, round again, back onto the track while managing to catch it pointing in the right direction, forgot it had ever happened and went on to win the race!

[BD]

Speaking of saves... Montoya had an incredible one in a CART race. I dont remember where though. He was braking downhill, dropped too many gears, did a 360, braked for the turn and exited like nothing had happened.

[Lee Janotta]

Cars spin. It happens even to the best drivers! Not really Weber's fault, sometimes you just can't catch it, no matter how good your car control is.

Like I said, though... He makes wrecking an art form. Very admirable.

[Don K]

If I remember correctly, 6 cars retired at that point.
Of those 6, Wilson and Verstappen (the current Minardi drivers) did not hit the tyres.

And Webber (last year's Minardi driver) could even continue the race.

Almost looks as if Minardi's financial position urges their drivers not to damage the cars.

[ljakse]

My opinion is a bit different from those above:

The place where all of them were losing control was just about the place where they would usualy hit the throttle to speed up. For the last few years that moment was controlled by TC. However, there was just a bit too much water for that, so it came back to driver.
So, if you ask me - those were all drivers' mistakes. They have too much confidence in TC even when the conditions are impossible.

[racer69]

Sure the condition of the corner was changing each lap, but after the first 2 had spun off, the drivers should know that they need to be extra careful in the ever changing conditions.

They were blatant driver errors

[Sodemo]

Yep even though im a monty fan, I have to say he made an error as with the others.

I have actually had the chance to race in the wet. We raced 85MPH thunderkarts in what was light rain, but we were racing on slicks.

It was very "interesting". It was very easy to spin coming out of hairpins, I spun twice, but was also setting fast times. I love racing in the wet, you can get the kart so sideways and still catch it.
Braking becomes a bit of guesswork though.

However I did actually beat Guy Sheffield, Formula A kart champ from 1998...