New Grand-Am GT rules

[danhx]

http://www.theracesite.com/index.cfm...m_article=5563

Edmonson says "stable platform"?...Yeaaaah...But i guess that's their answer to the relative lethargy of the DPs: make everything else slower too. And if it's not enough to slow down the GT and GTS cars they're throwing in the GS1 cars with a snazzy new (old) name... And they're combining GTS and GT into one class (GT), so why don't they just get rid of the GTS class altogether? They're obviously not very big fans of the class since they keep slowing them down, adding weight, etc. Then they finally finish that smorgasbord of "stability" off when they combine everything but the GS2s and DPs into a single class with stricter rules for 2005... Stable?...Further slowing of the "GT" cars doesn't really seem the answer to me since it sounds like it will be approaching cars similar to World Challenge cars, with GS2 coming close to WCTC. Also, juggling the classes so continuously over the next couple years could have an effect opposite to the hope of GARRA.

Think about it. In order to conform to the rules AND remain competitive teams will have to heavily revamp their cars over the next couple years. Some teams probably can't handle the additional monetary drain of rebuilding the cars. They say that if someone builds car for 2005 that they can compete with it in 2004, but from the sounds of it i really don't think that car would do well since the cars will have heavier restrictions in '05...It all sounds like a major CF to me and i'm pretty sure i'm not a fan of the idea of combining everything into one motley GT group...

But hey, i guess i'll give 'em a chance and see what this frankenstein's monster of a sportscar class can do.

[gttouring]

with GT and GTS in one class, and Their touring classes thrown in together, we'll have one winner of each class everyweek and the DP will move their pathetic ness into P1
they should just make DP's faster or lighter this is bullocks

[danhx]

My thoughts exactly...it's awfully shaky for a stable plot of land.

[GT-Eins]

Sounds to me like "Hello GTS, you are unwelcome (except your entry-fees): please move to a class where your cars can exclusively run only in our championship"

We won´t see more than the 6 currently build cars this year and how many teams will follow this stupid request really for next year?

[Chevyguy]

For me, one word best describes this move: HUH??

This is not the answer. It just doesn't make sense. I'll post again when I've got a handle on what they're thinking. It sounds to me like their top Cup cars will be GT class. Why not just have a Cup race, and let the DPs race alone?

[LouisTheShark]

This is to open up the GT field to more diversity without having to spend bazillions of Dollars to compete. It's JGTC with an American flavor to showcase cars sold in North America.

Compare the entry lists of FIA GT with JGTC and you see what I mean.

[Lee Janotta]

Please, someone put this series out of my misery!

[Lee Janotta]

Please, someone put this series out of my misery!

[JAG]

Originally posted by LouisTheShark
This is to open up the GT field to more diversity without having to spend bazillions of Dollars to compete. It's JGTC with an American flavor to showcase cars sold in North America.

Compare the entry lists of FIA GT with JGTC and you see what I mean.

Please do not insult fans intelligence by comparing these cars to JGTC cars.

As for compare JGTC grids to FIA GT, what do you mean?

They are both top class series, with FIA GT by no means the poor relative.

FIA GT boasts 5 Ferrari 550s, 2 of which will be replced by works built customer 575s, 4 Listers Storms following Creation purchasing a 2nd Lister Storm, numerous Viper GTS-Rs, 360s, GT3-RS and now even Morgan.

Next year expect the Masarati and various Zondas to arrive and eventually Aston Martin, Lamborghini and maybe even Mclaren-Mercedes. Plus who knows who else.

As for showcasing North Americas sportscars, isn't that what the ALMS does with Vipers, Vette, Saleens and very soon Moslers.

Is this entry not good enough for G/A, or do they realise anyone with this sort of machinery will compete in the LMES and FIA GT or ALMS depending on what side of the Atlantic they are on.

IMO, G/A should no longer even be classed as a major sportscar series anymore, especially outside of the US, and should be considered a minor national series on a par with say Trans-Am. Even Speed GT IMO is better than G/A now.

G/A doesn't really concern me, apart from the fact the once great Daytona 24 Hours has been relegated to a clubmans type event.

[veeten]

I take this as more of Rodger's & Mark's attempts at trying to not market to "sportscar racing enthusiasts"...

for me, it seems to be working.

[JAG]

Too true. It seems they are going for a totlly different market. Which IMO is good for the ALMS and sportscars in general. Just open up the Daytona 24 Hours to all cars, once a year.

[LouisTheShark]

Originally posted by JAG
Please do not insult fans intelligence by comparing these cars to JGTC cars.

As for compare JGTC grids to FIA GT, what do you mean?

They are both top class series, with FIA GT by no means the poor relative.

FIA GT boasts 5 Ferrari 550s, 2 of which will be replced by works built customer 575s, 4 Listers Storms following Creation purchasing a 2nd Lister Storm, numerous Viper GTS-Rs, 360s, GT3-RS and now even Morgan.

Next year expect the Masarati and various Zondas to arrive and eventually Aston Martin, Lamborghini and maybe even Mclaren-Mercedes. Plus who knows who else.

As for showcasing North Americas sportscars, isn't that what the ALMS does with Vipers, Vette, Saleens and very soon Moslers.

Is this entry not good enough for G/A, or do they realise anyone with this sort of machinery will compete in the LMES and FIA GT or ALMS depending on what side of the Atlantic they are on.

IMO, G/A should no longer even be classed as a major sportscar series anymore, especially outside of the US, and should be considered a minor national series on a par with say Trans-Am. Even Speed GT IMO is better than G/A now.

G/A doesn't really concern me, apart from the fact the once great Daytona 24 Hours has been relegated to a clubmans type event.

Saleen - what Saleen in the ALMS? Mosler, I'll wait and see if one will really materialize on the ALMS grid.

When you compare the diversity of JGTC grids to the diversity of the FIA GT, the JGTC offers greater variety. If I want to see the Porsche/Ferrari challenge, then the FIA GT is the place to go. No question it is good racing and there are a couple of other marquees involved, but not to the same diversity as the JGTC is showcasing.

If the new GA GT rules can bring Celicas, 350Zs, Mustangs, Corvettes, Vipers, alongside Porsche, Ferrari, and BMW, then I am all for it. GT racing needs some diversity. Small constructors like Mosler and Saleen are cool, but you also need to showcase cars that the average person can afford.

The new rules also brings back the ability for hotroders to come up with their own creations. What is wrong with bringing individual, not corporate, creativity back to racing?

[JAG]

' The new rules also brings back the ability for hotroders to come up with their own creations. What is wrong with bringing individual, not corporate, creativity back to racing? '

Nothing, but is international sportscar racing really the arena for that sort of thing, or as I suspect is G/A now postitioning itself as the ultimate US national series for the hotroders/maxpower/fast&furious crowd. All well and good, but it is not sportscar racing.

As for diversity, the JGTC's top GT500 class is populated by Nissans/Toyotas and Hondas and thats it. Theres the occasional odd exception of course.

FIA GT has 550s/575s, Listers, Vipers, Saleens and next year will have Maseratis, Zondas, and the like in the top class.

The 350Z should arrive in GT class racing sometime next year, and probably the Mazda RX-8 and EVENTUALLY some form of BMW GT.

As for the Mosler, they are in the proceess of getting ACO homologation to compete in the ALMS, and for there European customers to compete in FIA GT/LMES.

[LouisTheShark]

1. Grand Am is a national series. They don't pretent to be an international series.

2. IMSA used to allow creative diversity. Does this mean IMSA was not sportscar racing?

3. Europe, Asia, and North America all different continents with different market objectives and tastes. Within each continent there are different tastes as well. Europe is full of national series that are similar but different from FIA GT. Why can't the U.S. have something that is different from the FIA/ACO? Why must anything being dreamed up in the U.S. conform to Europe? What gave Europeans the right to judge what is and what is not sports car racing?

4. The ALMS is Europen sports car racing in America. That's great for those who like it. But it doesn't mean everyone in America must conform to the European view of sports car racing.

[gttouring]

By and large however as great as ALMS is and what you may not agree with it in its philosophy- ALMS is the International series, with its association with ACO and LeMans. This makes it hightly desireable to the Manufacturers and this is what makes a series. Manufacturers can ruin a series but also lend it credibility as aproving ground for their designs be it in engine chassis or both.
Grand Am has had good races and the Barber park scuffle of DP's was great but hosting the internationally historic Daytona 24 seems to lend itself as part of the whole International scene and they are runnning the series as such.
It would be in their interst to develop there rules as the ImportMarket they so desire, and lend it to tuners and Hot Rodding. If this would be the slant they put on it GA may take off as a different and respectable sportscar series in its own right, with DP's taking top honors.
It can work with its own model, but they started off as a separation of PSCR, and then when ALMS/new IMSA came about they looked like they were just doing a poor job trying to stay on Par with ALMS. Now with a new set of rules and differently defined categories and full fields of Home tuned and Hotrodded entries it can rise as a street battle series-they should add some strret courses for this...
This can work very well. and be very American, perhaps this is the slant they should go with. It could work well, at least as well or better than Trans-Am, and JGTC. And with slightly freer regulations than SpeedWC they can stay away from comparos to that. Now Speed WC is great but it should just be proper touring car racing..

[JAG]

Originally posted by LouisTheShark
1. Grand Am is a national series. They don't pretent to be an international series.

2. IMSA used to allow creative diversity. Does this mean IMSA was not sportscar racing?

3. Europe, Asia, and North America all different continents with different market objectives and tastes. Within each continent there are different tastes as well. Europe is full of national series that are similar but different from FIA GT. Why can't the U.S. have something that is different from the FIA/ACO? Why must anything being dreamed up in the U.S. conform to Europe? What gave Europeans the right to judge what is and what is not sports car racing?

4. The ALMS is Europen sports car racing in America. That's great for those who like it. But it doesn't mean everyone in America must conform to the European view of sports car racing.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. SOME US fans and governing bodies hate to see 'Europeans' dictating to them the rules to which there series runs.

The problem for G/A is that US sportscar fans seem to like'European' sportscar racing.

Lets face it G/A would love there series to be exactly like the ALMS. As it is not they are trying to give the 'few' fans something different, which is fine.

But why have DPs at the Daytona 24H, exclusively, for this 'national' series. Daytona 24H is one of the sportscar racings great races and should be open to the best sportscars in the world.

The nagging doubts I have about G/A is that it is a bunch of NASCAR folks trying to take over US sportscar racing in order to stregthen NASCAR.

If NASCAR truly wanted a US only sportscar series to attract US fans of all types, would it really have been so dificult to give the DPs 100BHP+ more power and make the cars really sleak and cool. And still keep costs relatively low. Lets face it the DPs are very overpriced for what they are. Maybe this would have made the NASCARs look pretty slow, and of course that could never happen could it.

[nsxr]

okay please dont ever put the jgtc in the same category as the grand-am. dont insult the best gt championship .right on jag i'm with you man. the alms, fia gt and jgtc are far better then the grand -am. sure a few good finnishes after an hour long nap maybe is fine for but .......

[cybersdorf]

Originally posted by LouisTheShark
But it doesn't mean everyone in America must conform to the European view of sports car racing.

As if you had ever done.

[gttouring]

Cybers you are correct
i would like to add` JGTC is awesome, better than GA- I ean that GA wants to have the success JGTC has...anyway
what I dislike about the rulemakers in GA is they are proposing that the SGS class (formerly GS1) and even the touring car class and GT will have there own spec wings and splitters..what the ****
where was the hotrod and tuner invention ideas? where did the good old american inginuity go to make this series the best go? this is one problem with GA
they want to run it like NASCAR and it isn't and shouldn't be. Spec wings and splitters is not for GA or Sportscars, These things run on regulations and teams interpretting these and exploiting the rules- the smartest team wins not the one who doesn't break or get to first place by just avoiding accidents. the Frances and ISC better get their mits off sports car racing as they see it and let another body or a new GA panel run it properly.
Spec wings whatever (it is not a formula series for mikes sake)

[LouisTheShark]

The people that make the decisions at Grand Am are not NASCAR people and they don't want to create another ALMS. The people that make the decisions at Grand Am have been down that path before when they ran IMSA.

I think when they started they wanted to appeal to the U.S. sportscar fan, but the ALMS was doing a better job marketing to that group. Now they are going in a different direction. With time I believe some of the ALMS fans will see an entertainment value in the series, while others will loath it just because it is owned by NASCAR. The real key to the future of either series is to grow beyond the tradional fan base and find new fans.

For real growth to occur in U.S. sportscar racing, both series will have to convert NASCAR fans to motorsports fans.

[gttouring]

true- I like NASCAR for the most part especially the trucks.
but The Frances do control GA and ISC where Daytona is a part of this. Their influence and ideas to bring "parity" is confusing good competition. it works on Cup cars but on road courses it is a bit different. NASA does a better job with the USTCC, and American Iron and its competition so far.

[Chevyguy]

I think the rules are more exclusion then any thing else. Ferrari and Porsche both have turnkey packages that won't be legal. How is that going to save things like time and money? As far as showcasing North American cars, there will only be Stangs and Vettes. Only one team runs a road converted Stang, and there are no Vettes, just TA cars. I guess the Goad will team race in the slowest class next year, though. The article on their site said that the engine rules will be similar to the DP rules. That excludes the Viper.

BTW, Louis, keep faith in the Mosler. That car has done nothing but progress. I beleive the ACO Moslers are on their way. Notice I say MoslerS. That would be a sweet GTS car.

[JAG]

Originally posted by Chevyguy
I think the rules are more exclusion then any thing else. Ferrari and Porsche both have turnkey packages that won't be legal. How is that going to save things like time and money? As far as showcasing North American cars, there will only be Stangs and Vettes. Only one team runs a road converted Stang, and there are no Vettes, just TA cars. I guess the Goad will team race in the slowest class next year, though. The article on their site said that the engine rules will be similar to the DP rules. That excludes the Viper.

BTW, Louis, keep faith in the Mosler. That car has done nothing but progress. I beleive the ACO Moslers are on their way. Notice I say MoslerS. That would be a sweet GTS car.

Do you mean 'Moslers' as in a GTS and GT version, as with the old 911 GT2 and GT2 EVO, or Mosler teams.

In British GT the Moslers run in GT not GTS. I'm pretty hopefull when the Mosler is ACO homologated, this team will race them in the LMES and LM as they are already racing in the Bathurst 24H event in Australia.

The Moslers have gained my respect after there dominant performances in British GTs and I'm sure they will storm ACO/FIA GT, and be reletively cheap for teams to buy.

[Gunman]

Mosler's will be homologated for ACO GTS.

[JAG]

Would a GTS spec Mosler have wider wheel arches than the GT spec car, as a 550 or Viper has, or has the Mosler road car been designed as a GTS car from the ground up such as the Saleen and therefore these mods were incorporated into the road car design.