[WTCC] Okayama round 19 & 20

[skells22]

after a break of a month and a small bit it time for the WTCC to hit Japan. which means Sky + time again for me and bear with me if you are watching in the UK as qualfying starts at 7.30am BST then the races start at 5.15am and 6.45am GMT and that will happen next weekend

[Jon411]

Official entry list released on the WTCC website:

http://www.fiawtcc.com/html/uploaded...10_Okayama.pdf

I'm with you on this one - Sky + for me as well I think

[skells22]

i need to know if rain is in the forecast so can someone check please.

[Sodemo]

Originally Posted by skells22

i need to know if rain is in the forecast so can someone check please.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/weather/forecast/1608?

[I Rosputnik]

Chevrolet dominates the first test session

***

It's great that they're getting more local drivers every year, but now the next step is to turn the guest entries into full time entries. Not just that but a local team as well. Maybe one of Japan's many tuners and constructors might step up?

I'm hoping that the Honda effort from Argentina works out, because it will not just be important in South America, but in Asia as well. With a Japanese manufacturer racing then hopefully that will give the series a boost in the country.

[Sodemo]

Anyone know the reason why Chevy are upset at BMW? I only caught the end of the interview, but I think I recall them mention that the RMB BMW's now have a sequential box?

EDIT; It appears that the FIA have ruled that BMW can now have a seq box but with no extra weight?

Article now here...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87822

I've read it, but still dont understand.

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by Sodemo

Anyone know the reason why Chevy are upset at BMW? I only caught the end of the interview, but I think I recall them mention that the RMB BMW's now have a sequential box?

EDIT; It appears that the FIA have ruled that BMW can now have a seq box but with no extra weight?

Article now here...
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/87822

I've read it, but still dont understand.

Try here http://www.touringcartimes.com/article.php?id=5480

Basically put (I hope)...

A BMW car with sequential gearbox gets 30kg added to it's base weight.

The problem is, for the purposes of the penalty weight allocation, the sequential car was separated out (for reasons unknown since Brno, and the FIA have made a point to say no one has protested so far).

So, the weight penalty is +40kg for the highly successful, 5 speed gearbox 320si, and -20kg for the slow, seemingly rubbish sequentially gearboxed BMW - but that's because Romanov is the only driver with one.

The difference of -20 to +40 is of course 60kg, so anyone switching to a sequential box will lose 60kg in penalty ballast, but have to add back on 30kg for running a sequential box.

Effectively for Bart Mampaey's team that works out as taking 30kg off and gaining a 6 speed sequential gearbox.

It's a no brainer for them really.

Chevrolet are upset because BMW just got a 30kg weight break and a better gearbox for no good reason, just another rule loophole which the FIA created itself three months ago.

That said, BMW haven't really done anything wrong, and have just read their rulebook. Chevrolet's anger would mainly be at the FIA, which is probably why they're not being too vocal at the moment.

Don't expect SEAT, or Proteam Motorsport to be too happy about this either.

[medius]

perfect logic in the eyes of the FIA. Chevy are protesting it.

[Monkey Head]

Originally Posted by medius

perfect logic in the eyes of the FIA. Chevy are protesting it.

I think FIA would let BMW continue to use sequantial but they can't switch back to 5 speed gearbox

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Hazard

The problem is, for the purposes of the penalty weight allocation, the sequential car was separated out (for reasons unknown since Brno, and the FIA have made a point to say no one has protested so far).

The sequential car was separate in previous years when only Zanardi was running. Don't know why it was listed prior to Brno, although the list does change depending on who has entered. For example there was no Volvo C30 or Lean TFSi listed at the start of the year as no one was running these. Has Romanov used the sequential 'box all year?

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by redshoes

The sequential car was separate in previous years when only Zanardi was running. Don't know why it was listed prior to Brno, although the list does change depending on who has entered. For example there was no Volvo C30 or Lean TFSi listed at the start of the year as no one was running these. Has Romanov used the sequential 'box all year?

Yep. I think the change after Brands was because they realised it was a bit unfair. Tim Coronel filled in for him and found he was driving a car at over 1,200kg. But in effect, it is a new shape BMW just with a sequential box - there's no reason for it not to be +1,200kg again this weekend.

So much as the weight was split for Zanardi's disability, they clearly decided it was a disability that Romanov was so slow - but as there is no able bodied difference between Romanov and Priaulx, RBM have taken advantage of the separation of penalty allocation.

The issues affecting Chevrolet's appeal are clearly:

1. There's no real grounds for it, apart from challenging why the sequential box car gets individual consideration, but the FIA have already set their argument out in that no one's challenged up to now. The counter for that is no one cares about Romanov's car - not even the other independents.

2. That BMW haven't yet committed to the WTCC for the next year, so the FIA might just grant them this extra leeway. The teams (SEAT & Chevrolet) suspected the FIA would do that back at Brands Hatch when RBM turned up with the old car, but were quite surprised (& happy) of course when the FIA told them to change the car back and put the weight on.

[GTRMagic]

Meantime Mr Priaulx looks super quick with the offending new box, fresh from his V8Supercar exploits last weekend in Australia... where they do run sequential boxes..

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Hazard

1. There's no real grounds for it, apart from challenging why the sequential box car gets individual consideration

Agreed. FIA are treating it as a separate holomogation, just as they did with old vs new BMW or petrol vs diesel SEAT.

Providing you don't go from a new to old model (as BMW tried at Brands) there's nothing to stop you switching between holomogations. Presumably Tarquini could switch to a petrol SEAT for Macau if that offered an advantage.

2. That BMW haven't yet committed to the WTCC for the next year, so the FIA might just grant them this extra leeway.

FIA playing politics? Surely not

It's the old story of 'letter of the regulations' vs 'spirit of the regulations' argument. BMW haven't really broken any rules, it just feels like they have.

[FIRE]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Meantime Mr Priaulx looks super quick with the offending new box, fresh from his V8Supercar exploits last weekend in Australia... where they do run sequential boxes..

It's not the first time he drives a seq box car, for example the GT2 has one.

[Hazard]

I don't perceive their being a disadvantage or issue or Andy/Augusto running a sequential box. It's easily easier and won't be (clearly hasn't been) a problem for them to adapt to.

There is only one thing though....what if it breaks? Okay, WSR, Motorbase, Flash Engineering etc. have been using sequential boxes for years - but it's the first time any BMW works team has run one.

The chances are very slim of course, I'm sure Xtrac and RBM won't make any mistakes, but it'd be a funny moment if it did after all this.

[Hazard]

Originally Posted by redshoes

Providing you don't go from a new to old model (as BMW tried at Brands) there's nothing to stop you switching between holomogations. Presumably Tarquini could switch to a petrol SEAT for Macau if that offered an advantage.

He couldn't easily, as he'd be switching to an older car that happens to be fitted with a petrol engine, which is against the regulation.

The only way to do it would be to retrofit a diesel SEAT chassis with a petrol engine (done before, that's what Tom Boardman's BTCC car is).

It's academic anyway, there is no advantage running a petrol SEAT engine when you've got a diesel

[redshoes]

Originally Posted by Hazard

but it's the first time any BMW works team has run one.

Apart from the previously mentioned Zanardi that is

[Sodemo]

So does anyone have a list of the car weights as they stand currently at Okayama?

[redshoes]

http://www.fiawtcc.com/html/uploaded...10_Okayama.pdf

[Hazard]

Here are the overall weights

Car	Weight	Drivers
SEAT León TDI	1,213kg	Rossi, Tarquini, Nykjaer, Monteiro, Coronel, Barth, Michelisz
Chevrolet Cruze	1,193kg	Muller, Huff, Menu
BMW 320si New w/6-sp seq	1,168kg	Engstler, Priaulx, Farfus, Romanov
BMW 320si New w/5-sp man	1,198kg	Yanagida, Chen, N Taniguchi, D'Aste, Hernandez, Bennani
BMW 320si Old w/5-sp man	1,123kg	Ho, Ito, Turkington, Poulsen
Volvo C30	1,173kg	Dahlgren
Chevrolet Lacetti	1,123kg	Y Taniguchi, O'Young

[Sodemo]

Its raining cats and dogs.

[medius]

huff wins race one.

[Piglet]

Oh dear, not a great weekend for Andy. It's all down to Macau again...

[touringlegend]

37 points has got to be a tall order to overcome, but then again Priaulx has pulled off similar feats before!

[Icebaby]

Well done Colin Turkington, never driven the track before the weekend, pitches up with a major company sponser in Aviva and drives two great races. Has to be a serious player for a win in the next round.