Fastest Laps (Brazil)

[shiny side up!]

Some interesting things here, folks...

Brazilian GP: fastest laps (stolen from F1-Live):

1. R. Barrichello - Ferrari - 1'22"032 - lap 46
2. H.H. Frentzen - Sauber - 1'23"089 - lap 53
3. D. Coulthard - McLaren-Mercedes - 1'23"132 - lap 40
4. G. Fisichella - Jordan-Ford - 1'23"454 - lap 51
5. F. Alonso - Renault - 1'23"770 - lap 41
6. M. Schumacher - Ferrari - 1'24"040 - lap 18
7. K. Räikkönen - McLaren-Mercedes - 1'24"104 - lap 39
8. J. Villeneuve - BAR-Honda - 1'24"463 - lap 48
9. R. Schumacher - BMW-Williams - 1'24"778 - lap 46
10. M. Webber - Jaguar - 1'24"956 - lap 50
11. J. Trulli - Renault - 1'25"036 - lap 43
12. J. P. Montoya - BMW-Williams - 1'25"814 - lap 24
13. J. Button - BAR-Honda - 1'26"042 - lap 17
14. C. Da Matta - Toyota - 1'27"080 - lap 47
15. A. Pizzonia - Jaguar - 1'27"990 - lap 24
16. J. Verstappen - Minardi Cosworth - 1'28"010 - lap 25
17. J. Wilson - Minardi Cosworth - 1'28"023 - lap 15
18. R. Firman - Jordan Ford - 1'29"159 - lap 13
19. O. Panis - Toyota - 1'30"494 - lap 17
20. N. Heidfeld - Sauber - 2'11"396 - lap 4

OK, Rubens had the quickest lap by over a second? Wow. And HHF up there with 2nd quickest. Coulthard's quickest was 1s faster than Kimi. And JV 1.6s faster than Button (due to the track drying at the end?). Anyway, some interesting results.

[TeddyG]

I would say that JV's time was so much faster because he was carrying a pigload of fuel after his first pitstop (most likely to the finish) which is why we saw nothing of him until the last few laps before the red flag when his car was just starting to lighten up...this is evident as his fastest lap comes on lap 48 of the GP...JV was robbed of a podium IMO as it was pretty likely that Kimi, HHF, and Fisi had to come in for another stop. And if the race like that had gone on for another 15 laps indeed "who knows what could have happened"...stupid Alonso it could have really been a great ending to an exciting GP.

p.s. I said this in another post that I know that Fisi says he was fueled to the finish but I believe this is totally BS by Jordan to gain more sympathy in a possible appeal case. We all know that the Jordan's aren't that fast guys! These lap time prove that really I mean look at Fisi and Frentzen's times only a few tenths off a Mclaren???? Gimmie a break they were bone dry when they set those times (as they set them just before the red flag - laps 51 and 53 respectively) 53 was the last lap of the race.... these are very interesting and I'm surprised more ppl haven't discussed them!

[DNQ]

The Minardis had some reasonable pace for their standards, but I guess light fuel helped that. Strange to see the race winner so far down that list

[Glen]

The quickening towards the end of the race was very much tyre related, in my opinion - it was exclusively the Bridgestones that were getting so much faster at that point. I'd agree that the Bridgestone teams were well placed for good finishes - if only Button could have stayed on BAR could have had their biggest ever day (if it had gone the distance).

No wonder Webber crashed - he was the only Michelin runner going that quickly at that stage.

[Testure]

Originally posted by TeddyG
I would say that JV's time was so much faster because he was carrying a pigload of fuel after his first pitstop (most likely to the finish) which is why we saw nothing of him until the last few laps before the red flag when his car was just starting to lighten up
...
I mean look at Fisi and Frentzen's times only a few tenths off a Mclaren???? Gimmie a break they were bone dry when they set those times

Hmmm, you've a bit of a double standard there... You're claiming that Fisichella would have had to pit again because he was going well during the last few laps but that Villeneuve, doing equally well at that point, didn't have to stop again. They had their earlier stops at fairly similar points (laps 7 and 19), so I see no reason to believe they weren't similarly fuelled when the race ended. I think the lap times were much more to do with the drying track, tyre wear and Fisichella being a better wet weather driver than Villeneuve.

The stats from F1 Live

[TeddyG]

Does anyone happen to know where you can find the length of each driver's pitstops? I think these could really tell us exactly who was fueled to the finish and who wasn't. Would be very interesting in reguards to Fisi's claim.

[shiny side up!]

They are on F1-Live, I think if you follow the link in Testure's post you will get there...

[TeddyG]

righhhhhht Villeneuve a full second off Fisi? Don't think so...JV was a second off the pace at lap 48 and Fisi was going his fastest on lap 51 IN A JORDAN...one of the worst cars on the grid...sorry can't belive that mate...this is why I would like to see the pit stop times...if it was over 10 seconds maybe it is likely he was fueled to the end.

[TeddyG]

ok and I think they prove my point...Fisi came in for 40 seconds the same amount of time as Kimi who we know had to come in again as DC would have won the race if it had gone the distance...JV was in for 45 seconds so could have meant he was fuelled to the end...Jense had a 41 second stop so it is debateable if he could have made it or not.
Still I would like to see the actual amount of time while the mechanics were working on the car which would be a better indicator than the time they were off the track.

[ASCII Man]

It doesn't really matter if the time off the track or the time that the mechanics work on the car's is measured, because they all go equally fast through the pitlane.

And Jacques had to wait behind Jenson for his pitstop.

[TeddyG]

No I don't really believe that rijntjuh...I was watching intently as the camera was on the pitlane when JB came in...they really had it timed perfectly as soon as JV arrived JB was leaving. As it is fuel that would have taken the most time to put in it should not have effected his time...but actual time spent on the cars would, as I said, prove this point i.e. once JV actually got into the pit box

[ASCII Man]

You're probably right on the JV waiting thing, but where's the logic in your last sentence??

There weren't any delaying problems during both pitstops and fitting new tyres is (almost) always faster than the refueling bit. So refueling almost always defines the duration of the pitstop as i don't think drivers are allowed to race at full speed from the box to the exit of the pitlane...

[Glen]

Their times would either be quite different or they were on the same strategy - I'd guess they went for the same for both of them, particularly with the Bridgestone inters being quite good on wear. If Jenson could have stayed on track I'd imagine that both BARs would have been very well placed (with Button ahead!). But he didn't (stay on track).

[TeddyG]

Right perhaps I could have explained that better. What I was trying to say was that if JV lost time anywhere, from what I saw, would have been inside the box, not waiting outside of it. i.e. if the team having just put Jense's tires on had to go and fetch JV's from the garage. (I am pretty sure they had them right there ready but I didn't think to look for that at the time). That is why I thought the actual mechanic's time inside the pit box would show more.

[ASCII Man]

Anyway, Jacques 3 Jenson 2
Jacques' pitstop length was 10.2 seconds IIRC .

If i recall correctly, ofcourse...

[TeddyG]

I have a pretty weak guess as to what happened. JB had his stop right before Villeneuve so the mechanics would then have to pick up the tyres for Villeneuve's car very quickly (wherever they were) to not cause delay. However the fuel guy would still be right there and could put the nossle in straight away. If there were any delay in putting on the tires the nossle would be in for a considerably longer time, perhaps too long. This kind of supports why Villeneuve was so uncompetitve throughtout most of the race and why he only really picked up and got noticed at the end there. I really think Villeneuve was definitely filled to the end . Button I am not so sure about.

Bear in mind I know this is weak and it will soon get thrashed by some Button fan.

Anyways I agree we could argue this forever...JV 3/JB 2...bring on the next GP!

[Glen]

Teddy "clutch at straws" G! Are you really saying that they just keep on putting fuel in for as long as the tyres take? Come off it!

[TeddyG]

...hey I said it was weak...but judging by BAR's previous pitstop blunders anything is possible. But seriously u are right my apologies...no harm in a little guesswork though

[paulzinho]

To be honest I don't think the biggest factor here is the fuel. The bridgestones were lightening fast compared to the Michelins due to their having less tread. As the track got drier and drier this would only have improved the balance in favour of the BRidgestones. By the end of the race (red flag) they were over a second a lap quicker if i recall correctly so even if some of them had to stop for fuel it is quite likely that they could have made up most of the difference on track again because none of them would be able to switch to slicks because there were still large wet patches in a few areas, particularly turn 3. And the michelins would have chewed up quicker slowing them down more.

[ASCII Man]

So are you saying that BAR drives on both Michelin and Bridgestone tyres? :confused:

One car Bridgestones and the other Michelins?

[paulzinho]

No because Button crashed out when the track was still rather wet. As it got drier and drier the Bridgestones became the tyre to have and were a huge advantage.

[David McManus]

There's a farly simple way to work out roughly how long each driver was stationary for.

The time taken to drive through the lane without stopping is 24.129s - the time taken for Alonso to serve his Drive Through penalty.

Therefore, take any pit stop time and subtract this and you get a rough guide to the length of time stationary.

[ASCII Man]

Genius!
Why didn't i think of that?!

[golem]

Well, I don't doubt Fisi could have made it, JV either. There where alot of pacecar periods. Each pacecar saves a bucket of fuel. I think it would have been touch and go, like Firman at Sepang. (His car choked out of fuel on the final straight and had been losing pressure for half a lap or something.)

Either way, I JV and Frentzen were equally in with a chance because remember, everything was going to get bunched up by Webbers safety car again. I think on the last 5 laps the michelins would have needed slicks but turn 3 and one or two others would have kept them useless.

To my way of thinking, Maclaren should be down on it's knees thanking Alonso for not slowing down enough because let's face it, the Michelins were going off faster than the fuel loads. The Bridgestones were hanging in their and speeding up. I don't doubt the possibility of any of JV, Frentzen or Fisi making it to podium if not top steps. Not one of those guys is inexperianced and slow.

[paul-collins]

Re JV's lap times, on lap 55 (just before Webber's shunt), the commentators had said that JV had just done the fastest first sector. Definitely due to the track drying, but just to show that his late race charge had showtime potential - too bad it was curtailed.