More dispair for Arrows?

[Mr V]

Just read this on www.autosport.com

hope Arrows are just leaving it abit late, but it does look ominous for the team!

The Arrows Formula 1 team's participation in this weekend's French Grand Prix is in serious doubt after it emerged that the outfit's transporters have yet to leave for Magny-Cours.

Team boss Tom Walkinshaw is working hard to resolve the issues that almost forced the team out of the British Grand Prix a week and a half ago. He was forced to cover the costs of Arrows' supply of Cosworth engines himself, while fighting a dispute with shareholder Morgan Grenfell in London's High Court. Neither issue has been resolved.

A team spokeswoman at Arrows' Leafield base in Oxfordshire said: "Discussions are still going on and there are no conclusions as yet."

Usually, the team leaves for Magny-Cours on the Sunday before the race, although the cars are not transported until Monday or even Tuesday. The spokeswoman said: "It doesn't actually take that long to get there so I think we could be safe if they don't leave today."

At Silverstone the cars did not arrive until Thursday evening, after scrutineering took place. But the team won an extension, allowing them to be scrutineered on Friday morning before free practice begun. Heinz-Harald Frentzen and Enrique Bernoldi finally took to the track for Saturday morning's practice, once Walkinshaw had sorted a deal with Cosworth.

If Arrows is forced to miss this weekend, it could incur a fine of around £500,000 from motorsport's governing body, the FIA, which will only add to the doubts of the team's future in F1.

[Super Tourer]

Hmmm

This hand to mouth existence will surely end soon. Did anyone read the piece on Arrows by Peter Windsor in F1 Racing. He squarely blamed Morgan Grenfell and intimated that they should have supported the team more by investing in it, instead of wanting their money back.

There speaks someone who has never spent his own money on motorsport, I would suggest......

[f1manoz]

Blame lies at the feet of management. TWR has proven since taking over Arrows that they cannot handle running a Grand Prix team.

They would be better off selling the team to anyone prepared to take on the deficit.

[Speeddemon555]

They almost didn't make the British Grand Prix because TWR had to pay the engines to Cosworth. If they don't go to France this weekend only 20 cars will be racing. Could we be seeing VW in F1 in the future?

[Sato san]

Orange have announced they wont be sponsoring in F1 next year . The parent company that own Orange are in heavy debt also . More bad new for Arrows.

[Big Mac]

Well, the timing is right for VW and any other manufacturer to enter F1 if they wanted. Especially when you consider Minardi's woes as well.

[Jukebox]

Arrows, Minardi and Jordan are in serious problems at moment. Still trying to figure out which manufaturer are talking with Asiatech for the partnership.

[josvandeperre]

Is the Peter Windsor piece available on-line ? I suspect there is a massive cross-cultural divide and the city boys haven't a clue about F1 (or dealing with Bernie who it could be argued legged them over on the bond thing amongst others) but cannot afford the loss of face the reselling of their stake would entail

[Valve Bounce]

Arrows problems are caused by the high cost of trying to be competitive in F1 this year, especially when the team did not have the finance to do so.
Minardi are reported to have sought the backing of a billionair Saudi Prince to take a part ownership in the team.
Anybody who blames Morgan Grenfell has little appreciation of finances.
Orange, if anything, are in a worse position than Arrows.

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

[Jack racer]

Well the cars are on the way. I suspect there is something more going on behind the scenes as Morgan Grenfell would surely jump at the chance of another big invester and the chance to get rid of Tom. If it was that easy as Tom is saying it would be happening, I think he is up to no good and is trying to make Morgan Grenfell look the villain's.

[chrisrb2002]

well the trucks where off on tuesday evening at about 6pm as opposed to their normal leaving time of 7am on the monday morning before the race, I'm not stalking the team just they go past me when i am cycling to work. I hope they carry on but..

[steve nielsen]

Originally posted by Jukebox
Arrows, Minardi and Jordan are in serious problems at moment. Still trying to figure out which manufaturer are talking with Asiatech for the partnership.

there is talk(rumours) about Hyunday wanting to get into F1.

[steve nielsen]

BTW: check www.arrows.com :

"site is currently suspended" :confused:

[Sato san]

Tom did say that he thought a new owner would be announced before the French GP....will it happen in the next couple of days?

[Bibendum]

Steve Nielsen -- I think the correct address is www.orangearrows.com, where all seems to be well; perhaps arrows.com is an old site that's defunct? At the orangearrows site, a press release announces that the engine issue isn't relevant to their delayed departure for Nevers, and that the problem is negotiations with "one of our stockholders." I.e. Morgan Grenfell.

I do hope they don't disappear from the scene; but things are looking bad all over, so I suppose one shouldn't be surprised.

[steve nielsen]

nope, arrows.com and orangearrows.com where both not working this afternoon, but seem to be working again.

[NiceGuyEddie]

The deadline has been met, so the engines are released to power both Arrows-cars this weekend. Good news me thinks.

The problem seems to be a purely commercial one. Walkinshaw wants out as soon as possible, willing to trade cheaply for cash, where as Morgan Grenfell have a million-dollar investment to protect. So they are less eager, or not at all, to sell to the first joker who wants to buy. You may think of Dieter Mateschiz when I say 'joker'. With the utmost respect of course.

The price is just not right at the moment, and apparently Morgan Grenfell has the last say in the matter.

So its cash or crash for Arrows, but considering Morgan Grenfell has just as little interest in a crash for the Arrows-racingteam, I think they will come to some sort of solution.

[steve nielsen]

you're right about that Eddie, they own 49% of Arrows, so they have nothing to gain by letting it go bust.

[Lee Janotta]

VW's _not_ getting into F1, they've made it more than clear to the press that they won't make that sort of investment without a guarantee of success. GM or Peugot would be more likely.

Morgan Grenfell... Well, they're investors. They only think in dollars, and particularly in short-term gain.

Niki Lauda is just being a by putting Walkinshaw's back against the wall over engine payments. Arrow's results are the only good publicity Ford's getting out of F1!

Bernie always wanted a 20-car grid: now he's going to get it. I hope he chokes on it.

Ratings are going to absolutely plummet after Schumacher ties up the championship. No one's going to watch Schumi race half-heartedly, blocking Montoya so Reubens can tie up second in the points.

As for Walkinshaw... His only hope now is to fire Frentzen and bring in another pay driver. Mind you, I'd be FURIOUS if that happened, but realisticly, he's out of options.

The truth is, unless there's a drastic move to cut costs immediatly, neither Arrows nor Minardi will make it to Melbourne next year.

[steve nielsen]

No, Tom signed a deal and knew what he had to pay, if he can't pay than he's just plain stupid(and should have stuck with Asiatech).

BTW: I think Tom will just sell Arrows to Red Bull in the end.

[senna12]

Red Bull is probably trying to low-ball a bid, whereas Morgan will be squeezing for the most money possible, while punishing Tom for being such a goof by making him pay to run, out of his own pocket.
They (Morgan) probably encouraged Pollock to get involved in order to increase the likelihood of a higher bid.

steve n. is right, in hindsight, he should have hooked up with Asiatech.

[Nicholas]

Arrows.com is working, and since I was there I took the time to read this statement:

"Arrows would like to clarify that, contrary to today's press reports, our participation in the French Grand Prix has nothing to do with engine supply. All payments to Cosworth Racing are up to date and, as stated before, the terms of the agreement are confidential. The issues we have are nothing to do with Cosworth, they are to do with one of our shareholders. We are still in discussions and, as we said yesterday, will do all in our power to compete this weekend."

[Valve Bounce]

I just read that Morgan Grenfell actually owns 70% of Arrows, and I am sure that if the team is sold, they at least want their money back if not more. Then there is Cosworth - according to reports Walkinshaw paid out of his own pocket for one race only for Silverstone, which means that despite what Walkinshaw maintains, Cosworth would still have some sort of claims to any money Arrows is sold for. For those who have experience with builders who go broke, and tradesmen and suppliers who have not been paid, they will fully understand the similarity here. Obviously there are people who have claims against Tom Walkinshaw/Arrows over money owed, as well as oustanding court cases like Jos Verstappen's. The problem here is, if Arrows is declared insolvent, and fails to show up for quals in France, then the repercussions are more serious and severe than just a fine - they could be out of F1. This, of course, would not benefit any of the creditors one iota, and that is probably Tom Walkinshaw's trump card.

Valve[img]http://www.**************************/smilies/bouncy.gif[/img]

[OVERSTEER]

Well if Morgan Grenfell block any attempts by Arrows to let Red bull or anyone else buy into the team and therefore generate cash to secure then teams future, and subsequently the team goes bust, and Morgan Grenfell lose most or all of their money, then that's their own stupid fault.

[Jukebox]

Originally posted by steve nielsen
there is talk(rumours) about Hyunday wanting to get into F1.

That would be great steve, but there are investing quite heavily in WRC right now. Somehow i doubt that they would have enough resources to invest even more money in Formula1 as their oversea sales aren't that good.