Lack of LMP1 options

[Dyson Mazda]

Does anyone see this becoming a problem? The only real option for privateers in the top class is a Lola right now. Creation fizzled out, Zytek just filed for bankruptcy, Pescarolo is rebuilding, and no one runs an ORECA except ORECA.

[joeb]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

Does anyone see this becoming a problem? The only real option for privateers in the top class is a Lola right now. Creation fizzled out, Zytek just filed for bankruptcy, Pescarolo is rebuilding, and no one runs an ORECA except ORECA.

It could be a problem for grid variety, but I would like to think that if there were a demand for LMP1 chassis, then constructors would make them. Unfortunately right now there doesn't seem to be a huge demand. I see a few options on the table for privateers who aren't grandfathering in a car: Lola, Oak/Pesca, possibly an updated/new HPD, Wirth is said to have a design on a hard drive as well.

[picchiofan]

What do you mean "becoming"?

[Simmi]

I was hoping more teams would go down the grandfathering-in route to keep numbers up. Doesn't look like it will be the case.

A lot of teams are quiet on their plans so maybe in a couple of months if there is still no real news then it might be time to worry more. I believe its all cyclical anyway and there will be peaks and troughs in terms of numbers. But it is definitely a good time to be working for Lola.

[Joe Taylor]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

Zytek just filed for bankruptcy

They haven't, they've gone into administration due to a conflict between the shareholders, both of whom are expected to make an offer for the company. I fully expect to see Zytek at full strength next season, regardless of who ends up owning it.

[deggis]

On the other hand, LMP2...

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Joe Taylor

They haven't, they've gone into administration due to a conflict between the shareholders, both of whom are expected to make an offer for the company. I fully expect to see Zytek at full strength next season, regardless of who ends up owning it.

+1



L.P.

[Japanese Samurai]

The problem is whether the market of LMP1 sportscar exists.
There might not be constructor who has obtained the profit with LMP1 car except Lola.

[Canada ALMS fan]

^In a perfect world LMP1 will be full of factory efforts and the odd wealthy eccentric entry, with a plethora of LMP2 privateers in a variety of chassis/engine combinatons. This has been attempted but never seems to work out. Mandating a gentleman in each car should keep the works efforts out of P2 this time.

[dj4monie]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

^In a perfect world LMP1 will be full of factory efforts and the odd wealthy eccentric entry, with a plethora of LMP2 privateers in a variety of chassis/engine combinatons. This has been attempted but never seems to work out. Mandating a gentleman in each car should keep the works efforts out of P2 this time.

Depending what your definition of "Gentleman" is some people that aren't paid professionals but very fast. There are more than a few people who ran out of money and couldn't get another ride. Zak Brown was one, Elton Julian is another American, how many others are their??? Bruce Jenner is the '76 Decathlon Gold Medalist and still drove very competitively for Jack Roush.

Would you consider them "Pros" at the start of the 2010 season? I doubt it...

I wouldn't automatically expect a bunch of 40-50 year old White Men with phat pockets to only get rides, people like Zugel and Tucker fit that mold and are quite a bit slower than their co-drivers.

I believe the Drayon/Muscle Milk strategy will be employed from here on out. Put the slow guy in first, hope he doesn't get too far behind, first pit stop or first 45 mins in the car, make the change over and put the quick youngster or seasoned pro in the car and let the "real" race begin.

Anyway, I'm not concerned about LMP1 because the gulf between Autocon and Intersport are massive compared to Highcroft. If Highcroft does as I expect them too and bring a proper LMP1 car to the table, straight away speed will not help Intersport, pro drivers in Autocon will not help them either.

I expect a complete run away battle between the best two teams left, Muscle Milk and Highcroft. You only need two cars to have a race, sure more are better but I rather have Graf and Pags or Brabs battle it out in the sprint races and add Memo and Marino to the mix in the longer races.

Still better than watching Pruett et-al dominate in DP's and watch Taylor complain or make "fut" faces on pit lane.

[old man]

Zytek will be back and the probability is that Tomlinson will take full control as part of the Ginetta brand but even there I am told the whole Ginetta business is, as yet, not profitable but relies on the LNT group for support. It was interesting that the stories about Zytec and Beechdean Mansell were on DSC together so there is another story to be told there.

Mansell said in his statement that LMP1 is impossible without a manufacturer and if he cannot pull sponsorship it speaks volumes. If we look at Audi and Peugeot they depend on their own money and Highcroft no doubt has plenty factory backing but the attraction to other manufacturers is not there as the publicity developed by F1 is much more attractive. Drayson is spending his own money and will decide at some stage that all him aims have been met and the attempt to start a Le Mans based world series looks to be floundering in the third round at Zuhai.

I was told recently by a leading protaganist that sportscar racing can only ever be a "gentlemen's" sport and it is impossible to make a business of it except by attracting paying gentlemen. For that to continue there has to be real prestige from winning races and with the strong domination that we have when the diesels turn out the chances of glory by private entrants is limited.

It is vital that the regulations from the ACO really do balance performance and perhaps the Audi and Peugeot teams should be required to make engines and/or cars available to private teams. For LMP1 to survive as a viable class it does need to be more attractive to private teams and the sportscar manufacturers who at present see their needs satisfied very well by GT racing

[Dyson Mazda]

I was told recently by a leading protaganist that sportscar racing can only ever be a "gentlemen's" sport and it is impossible to make a business of it except by attracting paying gentlemen. For that to continue there has to be real prestige from winning races and with the strong domination that we have when the diesels turn out the chances of glory by private entrants is limited.

The GT class in the ALMS seems to be doing alright right now. There are a few pro am lineups but not many

[Mal]

The opportunity is there right now to return racing to its roots of developing new technology and no form of racing is more suited to that that P1 prototype sportscar racing and to me the ACO needs to embrace that and reduce regulations, reduce weight limits and let the designers loose for a few years to see what they can come up with.

Why not forget about balance of performance but specify a minimum number of laps required between fuel stops using a specified amount of externally sourced energy to stretch efficiency. Make it something like 15 or 16 laps at LM and see what the designers do to achieve it

[Speed-King]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

The GT class in the ALMS seems to be doing alright right now. There are a few pro am lineups but not many

Few of them on sponsorship alone, though. With the exception of Corvette and BMW there's always a sugardaddy somewhere, if not in the cockpit then at the pitwall...

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Dyson Mazda

The GT class in the ALMS seems to be doing alright right now. There are a few pro am lineups but not many

"all right" I suppose.

BMW/Rahal - No real outside sponsors, and the BMW aG money is going away, BMWNA doesn't really have the pockets or desire to step up funding on that side. Rahal hasn't been able to put sponsors on the side of any of his cars in nearly 5 years. I think it was Tommy that was bringing the EA/NFS $$.

Corvette - Sponsors & factory backing, they're fine. Thank you Barry O.

Risi/Lizards. Sugar daddy is sitting on the pit wall, not the driver's seat. Seth has started playing with DPs. Lizards did cut their number of cars.

The rest? Pro-ams & ridebuyers. Extremespeed is a playtoy for the Patron CEO. The Robertsons just like to play with their GT40 on the weekends, Falken put their car up for sale.

Oh yea, I forgot about the Jag "effort". Giggle.

[Fogelhund]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

Falken put their car up for sale.
.

Falken has a couple of cars. Which one is for sale, and have a link?

[picchiofan]

Originally Posted by Fogelhund

Falken has a couple of cars. Which one is for sale, and have a link?

Back pages of autoweek, a couple of them.

[old man]

GT racing is slightly different from Sportscar in that the cars have to be as sold, or nearly!!! This allows manufacturers to offer cars and relate their results to sales. McLaren are to do just this with the new road car using CRS and it will be inetresting to see how that goes.

In LMP1 the link is technology only and I agree with Mal, the regulators need to find ways of allowing manufacturers and equipment suppliers to use racing as the ultimate test bed but they will not do this if they have no chance of winning as is currently the case when the Pugs and Audis are about.

Success at the top level brings rewards for years, look at Jaguar, still selling on results from decades ago as the image is firmly printed in the public sub-consious mind.

[JAG]

The days of someone like Creation going it alone in P1 are long gone and one of the major reasons manufacturers needed to be kept out of P2.

Peugeot, Audi and Aston Martin have factory teams.

Aston will initially be building four customer cars, Peugeot will supply at least one car to ORECA and Audi have said they are interested in importer teams, i.e Audi UK.

Lola is the logical choice for customers until someone else provides a better option. OAK look like they want to become a major player and have effectively replaced Pescarolo, Wirth is the other organisation with potential although they maybe seeking a link-up with a manufacturer.

When Zytek sort themselves I'm not sure it's wise to produce a new P1 as there seems less risk and more potential in the customer hybrid market.

When Group C collapsed it was largely because customer options from Spice were outclassed, the new Lola was late to the party and no manufacturers supplied customer cars. These days the customer P1 options are far more attractive and there's a thriving P2 class with a much lower cost of entry which teams can use as a stepping stone.

[porman]

The Falken RSR for sale is their old car. A 2008.

[old man]

Originally Posted by JAG

Aston will initially be building four customer cars, Peugeot will supply at least one car to ORECA and Audi have said they are interested in importer teams, i.e Audi UK.

When Zytek sort themselves I'm not sure it's wise to produce a new P1 as there seems less risk and more potential in the customer hybrid market.

Audi UK did ok before but they found Sam Li to pay the bills, doubt they will find another multi billionaire after the lack of recognition paid to Sam

Tomlinson is a very sharp operator and I agree with you, a P2 is more likely

[TWK]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

"all right" I suppose.

BMW/Rahal - No real outside sponsors, and the BMW aG money is going away, BMWNA doesn't really have the pockets or desire to step up funding on that side. Rahal hasn't been able to put sponsors on the side of any of his cars in nearly 5 years. I think it was Tommy that was bringing the EA/NFS $$.

Corvette - Sponsors & factory backing, they're fine. Thank you Barry O.

Risi/Lizards. Sugar daddy is sitting on the pit wall, not the driver's seat. Seth has started playing with DPs. Lizards did cut their number of cars.

The rest? Pro-ams & ridebuyers. Extremespeed is a playtoy for the Patron CEO. The Robertsons just like to play with their GT40 on the weekends, Falken put their car up for sale.

Oh yea, I forgot about the Jag "effort". Giggle.

The most significant backing of BMW in ALMS is from NA, not AG, which is why it is expected to continue through 2011, even while AG cuts. After that, it's dicey.

Risi and Lizards are not entirely independent of support from Maranello and Weissach. GT has been an area in which manufacturers have seen a benefit to racing expenditures. The problem is that if it continues to be buried by other classes in the coverage, as it was in ALMS this seaon, manufacturer interest will fade quickly. There are rumbles are discontent.

[WMUCarGuy]

Originally Posted by picchiofan

"all right" I suppose.

BMW/Rahal - No real outside sponsors, and the BMW aG money is going away, BMWNA doesn't really have the pockets or desire to step up funding on that side. Rahal hasn't been able to put sponsors on the side of any of his cars in nearly 5 years. I think it was Tommy that was bringing the EA/NFS $$.

Corvette - Sponsors & factory backing, they're fine. Thank you Barry O.

Risi/Lizards. Sugar daddy is sitting on the pit wall, not the driver's seat. Seth has started playing with DPs. Lizards did cut their number of cars.

The rest? Pro-ams & ridebuyers. Extremespeed is a playtoy for the Patron CEO. The Robertsons just like to play with their GT40 on the weekends, Falken put their car up for sale.

Oh yea, I forgot about the Jag "effort". Giggle.

The Falken car for sale is their old 08 chassis, not the 2010 car they ran last year. Most sources I've heard have the Falken effort expanding for next year.

[davehenrie]

Originally Posted by Joe Taylor

They haven't, they've gone into administration due to a conflict between the shareholders, both of whom are expected to make an offer for the company. I fully expect to see Zytek at full strength next season, regardless of who ends up owning it.

According to the Mansells, there wasn't much 'full strength' support last year. That could be due to the lack of available funds as the two principles played tug of war with the factory, but it sure seems like Zytek really didn't focus much this past season. What will change in 2011 that will allow Zytek to be a builder/developer that teams clamor to buy from?

dh

[old man]

Originally Posted by davehenrie

According to the Mansells, there wasn't much 'full strength' support last year. That could be due to the lack of available funds as the two principles played tug of war with the factory, but it sure seems like Zytek really didn't focus much this past season. What will change in 2011 that will allow Zytek to be a builder/developer that teams clamor to buy from?

dh

If Tomlinson takes full control it will be a very different story. He is a man with huge ambition in motor racing and he will invest and bring in strong management, could be interesting but as I said, I think P2 is likely if he cannot see the way to winning in P1.

The only drawback to what I say is that I am told Ginetta, despite its success is not as yet building profit. I personally doubt that but we shall see