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Old 17 Mar 2008, 11:59 (Ref:2154596)   #1
Schummy
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Some laptimes stats

Here are some "numbers" about race laptimes in Australia.

Averaging the best 25% of laps, the ordered list of best times are (as gaps from the fastest):
Code:
HAM  0.00  58
KOV  0.19  58
HEI  0.47  58
ROS  0.76  58
RAI  1.06  53
MAS  1.21  29
KUB  1.33  47
BAR  1.50  58
ALO  1.69  58
TRU  1.75  19
COU  1.90  25
BOU  2.24  55
GLO  2.25  43
NAK  2.69  57
SAT  3.52  32
PIQ  4.14  30
SUT  4.44   8
To have some perspective, I have added the number of laps done. Obviously those who did a reduced number of laps had a handicap in terms of "laptimes".

McLaren has showed to have a consistent fastest race pace, we will see what Ferrari is able to do in Sepang. BMW definitively not yet "there" (with Mac), but tantalizing close to be an on merit winner. The rest are simply far away (except Williams/Rosberg, let's see what they can do).

Gaps between team mates (average 25% best laps):
Code:
HAM-KOV 0.19 
RAI-MAS 0.14 
HEI-KUB 0.86 
ALO-PIQ 2.45 
ROS-NAK 1.94 
TRU-GLO 0.51
Some thoughts prima facie:
  • Disaster for Nakajima.
  • Bad lap times by Kubica.
  • Weekend to forget for Nelsinho.
  • Very reasonable performance (pace wise) by Kovalainen.
  • A bad day for Ferrari in every field.
  • Gap Kimi-Massa smaller than perceived (by me).
Nothing hugely surprising (except Ferrari's "circus"...), but some interesting hints.
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Old 17 Mar 2008, 12:06 (Ref:2154603)   #2
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Nicholosophy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridNicholosophy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the gridNicholosophy should be qualifying in the top 5 on the grid
Once again, another insightful post from Schummy. Thank you very much for the effort.

It's interesting to see the close gap between Massa and Kimi. Wonder how that will pan out over the rest of the year - now that'd be an interesting stat to see after a few races.
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Old 17 Mar 2008, 17:07 (Ref:2154830)   #3
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Good post, thanks alot.

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Old 17 Mar 2008, 17:11 (Ref:2154838)   #4
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Regarding Kubica: Apparently he was switched to a one-stop strategy, so his lap times should have suffered compared to the two-stoppers. Then, of course, he was taken out.
I don't think this approach is very indicative of his ability here.

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Old 17 Mar 2008, 17:24 (Ref:2154852)   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Schummy
  • Weekend to forget for Nelsinho.
Or maybe the Renault's just an awful car, and Alonso's performance is comparable to his performance in that Minardi a few years ago.
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Old 17 Mar 2008, 17:41 (Ref:2154863)   #6
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Smokey 6 litre should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Lewis seemed to have a few tenths over Heiki all weekend, but once Heiki has got to grips with the team a bit more we could see that gao close.
Kubica was running 4 seconds a lap off the pace when he was having tyre trouble, he didn't seem to do so well from the safety car periods as others and the stratergy switch didn't work out for him.
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Old 17 Mar 2008, 17:45 (Ref:2154866)   #7
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safc_fan89 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridsafc_fan89 should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Not sure about that 4 seconds...he was behind Bourdais I think at the time. It's quite possible he was just being held up.
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Old 17 Mar 2008, 18:13 (Ref:2154903)   #8
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Smokey 6 litre should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
It was the commentator who said 4 seconds, but it may have been James Allen so i'll just appologise for quoting him and get me coat...
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Old 17 Mar 2008, 18:33 (Ref:2154920)   #9
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koper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridkoper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Satorian
Regarding Kubica: Apparently he was switched to a one-stop strategy, so his lap times should have suffered compared to the two-stoppers. Then, of course, he was taken out.
I don't think this approach is very indicative of his ability here.

agree
I think the info on which lap the best one was done should be provided to us as well - otherwise we may get a wrong insight - like in this case

Quote:
Originally Posted by Smokey 6 litre
It was the commentator who said 4 seconds, but it may have been James Allen so i'll just appologise for quoting him and get me coat...
I was following Robert's laptimes all the race on live timing - and indeed while he was behind Bourdais he was 4secs slower a lap than Lewis

Last edited by koper; 17 Mar 2008 at 18:36.
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Old 17 Mar 2008, 18:35 (Ref:2154921)   #10
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Smokey 6 litre should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
So its that good for me or James Allen? i suppose even JA can't get it wrong ALL the time when he's got a timing screen in front of his nose, i still feel ashamed for quoting him tho.

*slams door on way out*
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Old 17 Mar 2008, 19:40 (Ref:2154991)   #11
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There is not a "best lap" number here. It is the average of the best 25% of his (for each driver) lap. The single best lap is not necessarily the best estimation of the pace. Kovalainen's best is better than Hamilton's, but the rest of them are not.

The same for the laps behind Bourdais, those laps are mostly discarded (they are not among his best laps). But the fuel load and race circumstances had a role, undoubtedly.

There is not a "perfect" single number to show the performance in a race. But this calculation is a reasonably good measure of the pace of the pair driver/car in the race. But, as always, common sense is required to read any kind of measure.
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Old 18 Mar 2008, 23:13 (Ref:2156052)   #12
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koper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridkoper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schummy
There is not a "best lap" number here. It is the average of the best 25% of his (for each driver) lap. The single best lap is not necessarily the best estimation of the pace. Kovalainen's best is better than Hamilton's, but the rest of them are not.

The same for the laps behind Bourdais, those laps are mostly discarded (they are not among his best laps). But the fuel load and race circumstances had a role, undoubtedly.

There is not a "perfect" single number to show the performance in a race. But this calculation is a reasonably good measure of the pace of the pair driver/car in the race. But, as always, common sense is required to read any kind of measure.

hmmm....what if one driver has a room to go flat out and has "normal" fuel strategy and the other one's strategy is exceptional due to the situation in the race - having to pit in half distance of the race for the second time - having to carry the fuel for the remaining laps and on...optional tyres (so need to take care of them) and additonally being stuck behind slower car for number of laps...

I like your stats Schummy...but, indeed, sometimes we need a lot of common sense in reading them correctly...and we need to be very carefull with any judgments

Anyway...you've mentioned the Bourdais and fuel load...so we understand each other in that case...but if so we do you think "Bad lap times by Kubica"...bad is bad, but slow is slow

Last edited by koper; 18 Mar 2008 at 23:21.
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Old 19 Mar 2008, 00:01 (Ref:2156078)   #13
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In the first stint (where he was reasonably light) and some laps of the rest (he was not stuck in *every* lap behind others) Kubica had the opportunity to do good laps. In his case, the average is among his 12 best laps.

I think he had external problems, but 0.57 behind Rosberg and just a few tenths faster than slower cars are not good anyway.

BTW, everyone can opine freely about those data, that's the point of this kind of post .

I suppose we will have with Kubica the same kind of "things" we had with Weber, J. Villeneuve, ...; high level drivers but not perfect. It's difficult to write about them without raising some discontent.
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Old 19 Mar 2008, 00:14 (Ref:2156091)   #14
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koper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridkoper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schummy
I suppose we will have with Kubica the same kind of "things" we had with Weber, J. Villeneuve, ...; high level drivers but not perfect. It's difficult to write about them without raising some discontent.
hehe

well...he is just my countryman so forgive me

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Old 19 Mar 2008, 00:24 (Ref:2156094)   #15
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http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/65850

"This was not the biggest problem, though. The biggest problem was loss of power. The pace was very slow on heavy acceleration and I was losing a lot of laptime."
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Old 19 Mar 2008, 01:46 (Ref:2156147)   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by koper
hehe

well...he is just my countryman so forgive me



PS: I have a special feeling for Poland, the land where "god" was born (F.Ch.)
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Old 19 Mar 2008, 02:29 (Ref:2156161)   #17
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koper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridkoper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schummy


PS: I have a special feeling for Poland, the land where "god" was born (F.Ch.)
No doubt God supports Robert as well Frederick would also support
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Old 19 Mar 2008, 03:27 (Ref:2156181)   #18
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I believe fuel strategy will affect the lap times.
Kimi was stuck behind Rubens for 19 laps when running
softer compound tyres.
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Old 19 Mar 2008, 08:49 (Ref:2156302)   #19
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koper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the gridkoper should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
But the problem is with the teammates quali stat. as well.

What's the point of saying that 1 driver outqualified 2nd one say...7 to 1 if he usually pitted much earlier....

Teammates quali stat. was great before 2006

Nowadays we should count the laps done before the 1st pits...and count the difference between the 2 drivers' numbers of laps- than estimate the influance of the weight of the extra fuel to the quali laptimes...and than we should be carefull to judge, because what if...the team changes the strategy...or what if...one driver get stuck behind the slower car...forced to drive slower...saving fuel by the chance
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Old 27 Mar 2008, 19:45 (Ref:2163309)   #20
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Laptimes (average of 25% best laps) from Sepang. Gaps from fastest driver and number of laps completed:
Code:
HAM  0.00  56
RAI  0.05  56
MAS  0.11  30
HEI  0.18  56
KUB  0.35  56
KOV  0.38  56
TRU  0.57  56
COU  0.74  56
ALO  0.76  56
BUT  0.83  56
WEB  1.03  56
ROS  1.17  55
PIQ  1.22  56
BAR  1.35  55
FIS  1.48  55
VET  1.48  39
NAK  2.11  54
DAV  2.49  55
SAT  2.97  54
Lap-to-lap consistency. Measure of laptime difference between two consecutive laps. It means that 50% of laps had a difference lesser than indicated in the table. This measurement is automatically filtered to drop anomalous laps (pitstops, incidents, etc).
Code:
WEB 0.142
RAI 0.157
ALO 0.173
BUT 0.175
KOV 0.177
TRU 0.186
KUB 0.188
BAR 0.193
MAS 0.195
ROS 0.201
HAM 0.208
HEI 0.224
DAV 0.231
VET 0.248
COU 0.270
FIS 0.293
PIQ 0.336
NAK 0.350
SAT 0.507
Using a sort of "efficiency frontier" methodology combining laptimes and consistency , the three drivers who did a great job in Malaysia would be Raikkonen, Hamilton and Webber.
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Old 28 Mar 2008, 12:13 (Ref:2163786)   #21
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Greenback has a lot of promise if they can keep it on the circuit!
I noticed that the lap times at this year Austraila race is actually slower than last year, while at sepang is the other way round. Did they make some changes to the Melbourne track?
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Old 28 Mar 2008, 15:45 (Ref:2163938)   #22
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Taprobane should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Fantastic stats Schummi, love to see F1 broken down this much!
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Old 28 Mar 2008, 16:38 (Ref:2163984)   #23
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calibrax should be qualifying in the top 10 on the grid
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schummy
the three drivers who did a great job in Malaysia would be Raikkonen, Hamilton and Webber.
Is the fact that Hamilton spent 37 laps stuck behind Webber (and being slowed by him) reflected in the numbers?
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Old 28 Mar 2008, 18:03 (Ref:2164032)   #24
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In the "best 25% average" laptime it has some effect, as some of those laps behind Webber "could" have been good laps between that 25%. The effect is of importance when the driver is lowed in his "best car" laps, that is, when he has good tyres and low fuel load.

In terms of consistency it would not have effect, though, except if the driver is "uneasy" by being in dirty air behind the other car and begins to lap irregularly.

Interestingly (and strangely) Lewis looked better in the average laptime stat than in consistency.
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Old 29 Mar 2008, 12:40 (Ref:2164464)   #25
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Schummy where do you get your laptimes for the whole race from?

Is it possible to compare say the best 25% from this years Australian GP with last year's? I suppose for drivers like ferrari it would give us an indication of the progress Ferrari has made? One could also compare Lewis's times at McLaren with Alonso's at Renault to see how much Alonso has "lost out"??
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