So what is Gorman's plan?

[bentate]

With the recent remarks by Tom Gorman about reviewing Ford's investment in V8Supercar, what would his plan be to support the profitable and still strong selling XR range and just as importantly Ford's image building and again very profitable FPV range?

Gorman's remarks in the AGE regarding the V8's is also interesting. 'In an era of high petrol prices, V8-engined road cars don't have the same relevance or appeal in the marketplace as they had in the past.'

This is only a few short years after Ford invested tens of millions in the FPV brand and built a strong and succesful following for it's premium brand mostly on the back of V8 performance cars.

Holden is selling more than twice as many V8's today as they did ten years ago, so the question must be asked, is it the market or Ford's V8 product that is struggling for appeal?

I struggle to understand the long term plan for Ford locally if they intend to significantly reduce their support for V8 racing and brand building which is a key differentiater between Ford (and Holden) in the Australian market to simply become yet another importer of small and medium cars.

What real future does the Falcon road car have if the massive advertising and brand awareness that V8Supercar brings to the Ford and Falcon brand is suddenly lost?

After investing over half a billion $ in a new Falcon, what is the marketing sense in walking away from a major and most would say prime stage in V8Racing to expose the new model to tens of thousands of fans and Ford buyers?

Rumours persist that Gorman is not well liked or respected within the local Ford organisation and he has failed to grasp the grass roots appeal and value that racing brings to the local brand and Falcon in particular.

In Gorman's words, Ford may want to move away from the 'falcon car company' image, but it is still their biggest investment by far and remains Ford's largest selling and most important model in Australia.

Is Gorman about to push Ford Australia off the edge of a very high cliff for which it may never recover?

[cavvy]

Make a quid in both the short & the long term is Gormans aim.

Does Supercars represent good value in either/or the short or long term?

Compare the Ford advertising strategy with Toyota with $nil on V8s & lots on AFL footy .

An aside re marketing strategy: Noticed WPS advertising during AFL games in Melbourne.

[bentate]

Originally Posted by cavvy

Make a quid in both the short & the long term is Gormans aim.

Does Supercars represent good value in either/or the short or long term?

Compare the Ford advertising strategy with Toyota with $nil on V8s & lots on AFL footy .

An aside re marketing strategy: Noticed WPS advertising during AFL games in Melbourne.

Do many Corolla drivers watch the AFL?

AFL is a major interest in just one East coast market in Australia (Vic). Aerial ping-pong's popularity is limited to just three states. People in NSW, QLD, NT and Tasmania couldn't give a toss about AFL. They all have V8 rounds though....

I'd be interested in the Gorman business case for junking V8Supercars when it and V8 Falcon road cars are the key differentiators between Ford (and Holden) and Toyota in terms of each companies large car offerings.

Are you suggesting that because WPS something that it's a good strategy for Ford?

Conomos and Cochrane go waaaay back and whilst ever both are in their respective roles, Toyota will never get into V8's. The Japanese companies eager efforts to move into NASCAR in all three major levels is proof that to really build the brand they need to convert the grass roots and middle America (and Australia).

People buy Toyota because the vast majority of people make safe and conservative decisions about large purchases and Toyota is about as safe and conservative as you can get. Their products are neither inspired or inspiring, but for a large portion of the conservative buying public they are a safe purchase. However, Toyota's ongoing struggle to win the hearts and wallets of large car buyers in Australia continues to be a challenge for them, with the massively publicised Aurion proving to be a luke warm sales performer.

Why?

Currently the market favours the big T. They have a massive dealer network and the Corolla is a relaible and relatively cheap to purchase and run, conservative little car. Add the panic over petrol prices, a well known and well priced product and ready access through a huge dealer network and hey presto, you have plenty of sales...

The thing is, the market never stands still and we've seen small car panic before with the Gemini, Camira, Escort, Laser, Colt and Sigma - all being sales superstars at one time or another. But the market changed and it will again and whilst Toyota does not control the single largest market in Australia (large cars), it wont have the reliable high market penetration that it needs to sustain it's top spot.

At some point in the not too distant future, you'll see th Aurion or similar in our top racing category. This latest news from Ford demonstrates how fragile the two make formula is and I'm sure it's a very sobering wakeup call for Tony and his white shoes on the Gold Coast....

[cavvy]

Originally Posted by bentate

Do many Corolla drivers watch the AFL?

This latest news from Ford demonstrates how fragile the two make formula is and I'm sure it's a very sobering wakeup call for Tony and his white shoes on the Gold Coast....

AFL has the largest TV following & Toyota sell people the most cars, there may be a connection.

Corolla, Falcon, Commodore or Hilux ... so what !!

[dsg]

AFL has a big market in Vic, SA, WA, Tas, NT and footholds in NSW and QLD. I think V8's popularity would be greater in only 1 or 2 markets.

[mctshirt]

Originally Posted by bentate

People buy Toyota because the vast majority of people make safe and conservative decisions about large purchases and Toyota is about as safe and conservative as you can get. Their products are neither inspired or inspiring, but for a large portion of the conservative buying public they are a safe purchase. However, Toyota's ongoing struggle to win the hearts and wallets of large car buyers in Australia continues to be a challenge for them, with the massively publicised Aurion proving to be a luke warm sales performer.

The Hilux is best in class as far as I'm concerned.

The Corolla may not be fast, cool or sporty but you know that little bugger will start everytime you turn the key, isn't going take a bank loan to fill with fuel and will always get you where you want to go. The market is more interested in reliability versus inspiring thoughts about how many chicks a car will pull. The reason it's a market leader is based less on young boys fantasies and more on getting the basics right. Boring eh?

[mctshirt]

Falcons and Commodores have been skating on thin ice for years - maybe the future is here.

And what exactly does moaning about AFL and Toyota in this context have to do with motorsport?

[The Hrt Kid]

the afl may only have a minimal impact in nsw and qld however if you look at crowd figures i think you would be surprised mr moy. its not uncommon for the gabba to hold 30+ for a game of football. How many would qld raceway get on a sunday of the v8s?

then you have the swans in a state of oran park, ec and bathurst. Its not uncommon to see 70 thousand + turn up to see a swans game at the olympic stadium. there is no way you would get 70 thousand for a day at oran park or eastern creek, im not sure how many bathurst would get. i would expect around 60 - 70k for raceday.

to me theres just as much if not more interest in afl in those states than v8supercars.

[Razor]

Well, Ford does sponsor the Cricket and Holden sponsors the NRL and sometimes comes along with that massive blimp.

[peckstar]

Ford also sponsor AFL

[Pro Racer]

Holden's sponsership of the NRL is minimal to Toyota in AFL, Holden only sponser the Half time segment on Ch9 friday night and a few other things.

IMO Cricket wouldn't bring the exposure of AFL and possibly NRL, though i love Cricket and NRL and are not to keen on aeriel ping pong (probably comes with the state i live in) but the NRL and Cricket are nothing on the AFL in terms of exposure.

[bentate]

What who does with the AFL really isn't the issue. It's what Ford plan to do to keep the Falcon competitive in the market and create enough awareness to insure it is seen by those interested in buying large cars.

Pulling out of hundreds of hours of TV exposure and millions of dollars in merchandise sales with people from 1 to 100 walking around with your company logo and images of your cars on their backs is a fairly riskiy move when you are about to launch the most important new Falcon in the companies history...

[Pro Racer]

but thats the whole issue of this if the "hundreds of hours of TV exposure and millions of dollars in merchandise sales with people from 1 to 100 walking around with your company logo and images of your cars on their backs" were giving them big gains/sales for the money they are putting in then this issue wouldn't even exist.

if Cricket or AFL or other avenues of advertising is giving them equal or better gains/sales well then it's not so risky when launching a newFalcon

[peckstar]

when i ring up domonios on 131 888, it because last year they sponsored 888, for one year, but now the number is locked in. they did there job in one year, it didnt take multiple years of sponsorship to do

[Pro Racer]

well just look at Tasman's sponsership situation sometimes it only takes a couple rounds to work.

[Henry]

Originally Posted by bentate

...about to launch the most important new Falcon in the companies history...

they've been saying that about each generation of Falcon since, oh, the XL I'd say.

There will ultimately come a time I'd say, when global companies feel sufficiently comfortable about the abilities of their produced-on-a-large-scale-in-other-parts-of-the-world product to dispense with the local engineering... or to include the local engineering in their original global product planning, produce it more economically somewhere else, and then import it (or merely assemble it here from CKD stock).

Holden are already having their input used in global product planning, and anyone that thinks that it ultimately means more work here is kidding... remember the Sarich Orbital Engine projects?

[bentate]

At the end of the day this will ultimately be a simple financial decision. If Gorman is told to cut $20 million from his bottom line and walking away from supporting Supercars is the most practical solution, why wouldn't he? He has no allegiance to Australia (nor has Mooney at Holden of course) and will do as he's told. He get's a first class seat back to the US and a nice fat bonus when his job's done at FoMoCoOz.

It is the fans, supporters and loyal enthusiests that will be left to pick up the pieces of yet another local motorsport withdrawl by the blue oval....

[Henry]

Originally Posted by bentate

It is the fans, supporters and loyal enthusiests that will be left to pick up the pieces of yet another local motorsport withdrawl by the blue oval....

...or alternatively, we could hang around and try picking up the tattered remnants of the credibility of Australian Touring Car racing, should the current formula drag on too much longer...

[bentate]

Originally Posted by Henry

...or alternatively, we could hang around and try picking up the tattered remnants of the credibility of Australian Touring Car racing, should the current formula drag on too much longer...

You mean back when there was so much more credibility than there is today? Back when nobody bent the rules or took injunctions out against one another or filed complaints to CAMS or in fact threatened to take CAMS to court or threatened to withdraw every other week or did back room deals to keep certain cars in the championship and allow dodgey non homologated parts on cars?

Yep, those were the days.....

Good, clean, fair, gentlemanly racing that was.

Just when was that again?

[Aarrgh8]

1983, I think. When a little 2 door sporty thing with a bag of concessions won the ATCC. That was back when touring cars were touring cars, before Sierras and GTRs took over.

Or maybe it was about '62 or '63, when Jags beat old Holdens. Maybe it was '65, when a 4.7 two-door V8 beat some 3 litre Holdens.

Oh yes, things were so much better then....

[Pro Racer]

who cares when it was bring it back.doubt it will happen though.

there is to much money in the world these days to make good of anything, when ever money is involved something seems to go bad, money has turned football into a business it used to be you played for the club you wanted to now it is you play where the money is, now motorsport is a business not a sport you used to race a Holden if you were a Holden fan and visa versa now it is race where the money is stuff the brand, but i guess we have to go with the times.

[Aarrgh8]

That whole money thing reminds me of the late 60s when Ian Geoghegan won 69 races from 73 starts (something like that) in his 'powered by money' Mustang from various Minis, Cortinas and EH Holdens.

It makes the current series of wins by the HSVDT/HRT cars seem like a very unfair contest.

[bentate]

Originally Posted by Aarrgh8

1983, I think. When a little 2 door sporty thing with a bag of concessions won the ATCC. That was back when touring cars were touring cars, before Sierras and GTRs took over.

Or maybe it was about '62 or '63, when Jags beat old Holdens. Maybe it was '65, when a 4.7 two-door V8 beat some 3 litre Holdens.

Oh yes, things were so much better then....

Back when the touring car championship was one race and you could pretty much run what ever you could convince the officials was a touring car.

I too recall grand old 'touring cars' like the Nissan Bluebird and Mazda RX7, not to forget those other gems that crowded our Australian suburban driveways like Camaros and Mustangs and Galaxies and Customlines....

Yes, back when there was integrity in our local sport like Falcons running Holden pushrods and Holdens running polished intakes and quad webber carbies...

So much closer to the true spirit of the sport than today

And PWRFAN, how do you think guys like Bob Jane won the touring car championship if not for having the biggest wallet?

Money has always spelt success in motorsport more often than not.

That's not a product of V8Supercars alone...

[Henry]

Originally Posted by Aarrgh8

That whole money thing reminds me of the late 60s when Ian Geoghegan won 69 races from 73 starts (something like that) in his 'powered by money' Mustang from various Minis, Cortinas and EH Holdens.

It makes the current series of wins by the HSVDT/HRT cars seem like a very unfair contest.

Yeah but that was in the days when the ATCC was a single-race championship....







...bit like 2006, really...


Anyway, I don't mind, I quite like big-block Aussie Racers, really I do...

[D.R.T.]

Originally Posted by bentate

It is the fans, supporters and loyal enthusiests that will be left to pick up the pieces of yet another local motorsport withdrawl by the blue oval....

What motorsport withdrawal? Gorman has said Ford will always be involved in Australian Motorsport. He is only mentioning v8s