So you like Ferrari winning?

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

People always say that FIA favour Ferrari over other F1 teams, and, after the previous 3 years at their home race, Monza, it's now becoming clear that that is the case.

2011 Monza - Fernando Alonso (Ferrari) forces Sebastian Vettel (Red Bull) onto the grass and gravel on the outside of the flat-out Curve Grande corner as the German tries to pass him for the lead of the Grand Prix. Vettel keeps his foot flat to the floor, and gets past, in the best overtake of his career.

2012 Monza - Vettel returns the favour on Alonso. For once, Vettel being famed for lack of overtaking ability, whilst Alonso being famed as a warrior, ends up being a farce, as Alonso immediately backs out of the move, before complaining on the team radio. Vettel gets a drive-through penalty.

2013 Spa - Sergio Perez (McLaren) makes a valid DRS-assisted pass on Lotus' Romain Grosjean along the Kemmel Straight. Thinking he is past, the Mexican moves over on the Frenchman, forcing him onto the outside kerb, and Grosjean aborts Les Combes, feeling he'll only cause a crash. Perez is given a drive-through penalty for forcing another car off of the track, when 2 of Grosjean's 4 wheels were beyond the white line that marks the track, and the incident had very little impact on the Frenchman's race.

2013 Monza - Fernando Alonso attempts to pass Red Bull's Mark Webber entering the Variante della Roggia chicane. The two enter side-by-side, go through side-by-side, before Alonso cuts across Webber on the exit, preventing the Australian from getting on the power, before making slight contact with his front wing, causing damage very similar to that that caused Kimi Raikkonen to pit for repairs as it slowed him down. This could've cost Webber 2nd place, and Red Bull a 1-2 finish. Alonso received 0 penalties.

People are complaining about steward inconsistencies, and this is a big one right here.

[Aysedasi]

I didn't see today's 'incident' like you at all. For me, Webber had clearly lost the corner - he actually knew it, but didn't get out of it soon enough. It's a corner which will produce this kind of incident (and praise the Lord for the fact that we still have one or two left). I didn't see this one as Alonso forcing Webber out of the way though....


And how does example #3 relate to the thread title?

[ECW Dan Selby]

With all due respect, I think it's a load of tosh, mate.

Ferrari have been pretty rubbish by their own expectations. Red Bull have wiped the floor with the competition.

If the FIA are favouring them, they're doing a pretty rubbish job of it.

Selby

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

I didn't see today's 'incident' like you at all. For me, Webber had clearly lost the corner - he actually knew it, but didn't get out of it soon enough. It's a corner which will produce this kind of incident (and praise the Lord for the fact that we still have one or two left). I didn't see this one as Alonso forcing Webber out of the way though....


And how does example #3 relate to the thread title?

Spot on, Ayse. Webbo is tenacious at defending a pass. I have no issue with that. Sometimes he can be too tenacious and today was an example of that. Great defending by him and a great pass by Alonso...

And remind me again who has won at Monza every year since Alonso won in 2010?

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

With all due respect, I think it's a load of tosh, mate.

Ferrari have been pretty rubbish by their own expectations. Red Bull have wiped the floor with the competition.

If the FIA are favouring them, they're doing a pretty rubbish job of it.

Selby

Exactly. If this is the way the FIA favour Ferrari, Ferrari probably wish they would stop it.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Example 3 is showing inconsistncies. Perez gets a punishment, Alonso doesn't. 2011 and 2012 were obvious.

[Aysedasi]

I accept you're entitled to your opinion........

[Bandicoot17]

The first 3 are all different to the last though, they all relate to forcing a car off the track which Alonso clearly didn't do in the race today

[Greem]

If the FIA were really interested in favouring Ferrari, they'd have found all manner of reasons to pull RBR back from their technical dominance.

They haven't.

I saw today's pass as being perfectly fair - hard, but fair. Fred had been lining up for it for two or three laps and eventually got Webber where he needed him to be, and took the chance. The contact with Webber's front wing could just as easily have given Alonso a puncture, and it didn't hold Webber back as much as it could have done.

(I note that the damage was nowhere near as bad as Kimi's ram-up-the-backside job on Perez)

The cool-down room part was telling - both Webber and Alonso were all smiles and seemed quite happy with their race relative to each other.

One thing which is quite apt, currently - Jean Todt absolutely cannot afford to have the FIA *at any level* favouring his former teams at Peugeot or Ferrari. That would be too obvious.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by Greem

(I note that the damage was nowhere near as bad as Kimi's ram-up-the-backside job on Perez)

Quite so. I wondered when they said that the incident between..... actually I forgot who it was between now.... was being investigated and wondered why they weren't investigating Kimi's punt.....

[fergus_r]

Alonso made a good move today and Webber gave him racing room. It was a proper overtake, with full respect from both drivers. It's refreshing to see a genuine overtake especially after Spa where DRS is far too powerful down the Kemmel Straight.

[TrapezeArtist]

All the Ferrari International Assistance jibes had solid justification in the past, but I've seen no evidence for it in recent years.

As for the Webber/Alonso incident today, I thought it was Webber who was stretching the limits of acceptability. I don't think he quite gave Alonso a genuine car's width in the braking area (perhaps I should look at it again) and he was too slow to concede that the place was lost.

[Bononi]

"So you like Ferrari winning ?"

As much as any other team ? Why do you ask ?

[andy666]

I saw no problem with today's Alonso/Webber battle, always good respectful driving between the two (gonna miss it next year !) Your example of the Spa Perez/RoGro battle I still disagree with , no way should Perez have received a penalty ! I think I may apply to the FIA to be a Steward !

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by andy666

I think I may apply to the FIA to be a Steward !

In the hospitality bar?

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by Biscuits In A Red Bull

2013 Monza - Fernando Alonso attempts to pass Red Bull's Mark Webber entering the Variante della Roggia chicane. The two enter side-by-side, go through side-by-side, before Alonso cuts across Webber on the exit, preventing the Australian from getting on the power, before making slight contact with his front wing, causing damage very similar to that that caused Kimi Raikkonen to pit for repairs as it slowed him down. This could've cost Webber 2nd place, and Red Bull a 1-2 finish. Alonso received 0 penalties.

People are complaining about steward inconsistencies, and this is a big one right here.

I personally thought it was a brilliant overtake.

[andy666]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

In the hospitality bar?

Hell yeah ! As long as they have some good guest ale !

[MarkG]

Originally Posted by ECW Dan Selby

With all due respect, I think it's a load of tosh, mate.


Selby

I have to agree.

[Adam43]

I didn't consider that there was so much controversy about the racing between Alonso and Webber today until I came here. Now I realise there was none, even if you desperately look really hard.

[JohnSSC]

Originally Posted by andy666

I saw no problem with today's Alonso/Webber battle, always good respectful driving between the two (gonna miss it next year !) Your example of the Spa Perez/RoGro battle I still disagree with , no way should Perez have received a penalty ! I think I may apply to the FIA to be a Steward !

This was being discussed by the NBC crew during practice or qualies (can't remember which). They noted that McNish (the driver rep on the steward's team) was frustrated that there was only a stop and go penalty that could be applied in that situation. Apparently the FIA are considering adding an option for a 5-second penalty that can be assessed at race end. May not be a bad thing if it happens.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by fergus_r

Alonso made a good move today and Webber gave him racing room. It was a proper overtake, with full respect from both drivers. It's refreshing to see a genuine overtake especially after Spa where DRS is far too powerful down the Kemmel Straight.

I thought Webber made it way too easy, no defence at all!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by wnut

I thought Webber made it way too easy, no defence at all!

There's a surprise.

[Bononi]

He tried so hard...

[F1Guy]

HOLY THREAD MINE BATMAN!

Thought this thread would be a better place to post this.


It is no big secret that the FiA and FOM have in the past, and still do, like to see Ferrari up front and/or winning frequently. There has been some comments made recently by BE regarding the Ferrari favouritism during his time, and even more recently. Some snippets from the article below.

Bernie Ecclestone: "Helping Ferrari has always been the smartest thing to do.

“And it always has always been done through the technical regulations.

“Teams are important for F1, but Ferrari is the most. That's why over the years, many things have been done that have helped Maranello win."

"Max has often helped Ferrari. And I too. We all wanted the Ferrari to win.

“A season won by Ferrari is more valuable than a season won by others. But look, teams have an interest in challenging a competitive Ferrari. It is one thing to win against Sauber, but another to win against a red car from Maranello.”

Earlier this year, I posted about how Mercedes helped Ferrari with their PU development. Which, as usual, was an opportunity for a jab.

Originally Posted by F1Guy

Just as there was no 'official statements' when Mercedes helped Renault and Ferrari with their PU's. But for most, if an 'official statement' has not been released, then it didn't happen. Not everything that happens in the F1 paddock is put on paper. Most things still work on a hand shake. A 'contract' or an 'agreement', means diddly squat in F1. They can be made and broken with a simple nod of the head, or a handshake. No signed papers required.

Some comments regarding the issue of Mercedes helping Ferrari were also made recently. Bernie said a few things, without saying too much.

Bernie Ecclestone: "In this case, no one can know except the one who did ... Certainly at one point a hand with the engine was there.”

“Mercedes – and for good reason. A world championship won against Sauber is one thing. One won against Ferrari is another.”

“And if Mercedes had decided to translate technology to Maranello, I say it was a good move.

“It is also certain that with the friendly situation between the two teams, the best thing for Stuttgart in 2017 was to make sure that a) that Red Bull did not have the most powerful engines and b) Ferrari was competitive enough to be a credible rival to beat.”

Red Bull's Christian Horner: “It’s very clear that there’s a very tight relationship between Ferrari and Mercedes, the way they operate in meetings, one won’t lift the hand up without the other one being in agreement these days. So there is that dynamic.

“It’s not the first time that’s happened in Formula 1, it won’t be the last time. As far as whether or not one has helped the other, that’s not our business. I’ve got no idea. I’d be surprised but yeah… what you see with Mercedes and Ferrari today, they’re very aligned in all of their thinking.”

Certainly not "proof" that FiA/FOM prefer to see Ferrari winning. And nothing "concrete" on Mercedes helping Ferrari. But it's interesting nonetheless.

I doubt if there will ever be full disclosure on the deals made behind F1's closed garage doors. So if anyone is waiting for a "official statement" regarding these issues, you might be waiting for quite a while.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/e...-rival-971625/

[S griffin]

Bernie is speaking a load of pony. Merc wouldn’t want to give advantage away. Ferrari are good enough to challenge without help. But I’m not surprised Ferrari have been helped from within, remember Michelin-gate in 2003? That still leaves a bitter taste to me