Jaguar WHY Formula E ?

[Bob Baldwin]

As a youngster I way simply Amazed when I saw my first XKE . Got really pumped up with the Tom Walkinshaw Jags in IMSA . One of the best years in North American Road Racing . If you ask me .

We all know that North America is a critical market for the Mfg's None of them would be here if the $$$ return to them was not justified as opposed to their expense . Porsche , Lambo , Ferrari , BMW I guess are the big ones .

Surprised to see Jaguar in Association of the Williams Formula 1 Team entering the Formula E series . Yet unless I am mistaken their race presence both in North America and Europe is Non Existent . I only recall Emil Frey as a Privateer doing some One Off's in Europe .

I have no idea on the costs of Doing the Formula E series Nor how much Value either the Marketing or Advertising will bring in for Jag .. Is there a reason they are NOT in ANY type of GT series anywhere ? What am I missing ?

[TRuss]

It's relatively inexpensive. They don't have to develop a chassis or aero and the drivetrain won't require much and everything is very restricted in terms of development. So, they have very little in it, they should be able to be competitive right away and they get to promote a forward thinking image without having to do too much and FE is a world championship. Which is great for a smaller company like Jaguar.

[Bob Baldwin]

"To Promote a Forward thinking Image " ?

[Accident]

Originally Posted by Bob Baldwin

"To Promote a Forward thinking Image " ?

"Hey look we are racing with electricity and electric cars are the future, aren't we advanced? And green too! Be impressed!"

[Hans Stuck Fan]

Originally Posted by TRuss

Which is great for a smaller company like Jaguar.

Owned by a huge global corporation. Jaguar's lack of involvement in GT racing is massively frustrating. Don't know how deep the wounds of Rocketsport's appalling programme still run; especially the farcical showing at Le Mans

[Ephaeton]

Originally Posted by Hans Stuck Fan

Owned by a huge global corporation.

This has nothing to do with anything. It's its own entity, complete with its own budget and accountability. In the end, most corporations are essentially owned by global billionaire-and-more players. And the corporations liabilities extend to the amount of capital they carry, not their owner's gross capital. After all, that's why one creates a separate corporate entity. Boundaries of liability.

[pirenzo]

Beyond a full LMP1 program I am not sure what Jaguar could usefully do in sports car racing. Jaguar seem to exist in a no-mans land between Bentley and Aston Martin these days. I'm not sure what can be achieved by competed directly against those two in GT racing.

Formula E is a corner of the racing world not yet populated by traditional GT marques, where Jaguar will stand out a little better. And of course it's fairly inexpensive.

[peebee2]

Because GT racing brings almost zero PR return??

[FLGTFAN]

Originally Posted by peebee2

Because GT racing brings almost zero PR return??

GT racing used to be a place where a brand like Jaguar could stand out. Now GT is a corporate marketing division of the FIA/ACO, etc. So is Formula E of course.

[Deleted]

It's a series for cheap spec cars and "feel good" theme, so half-free advertising.

[Bob Baldwin]

Again I have no idea what the participation costs are to run the F-E series anyone with insight for such ?

Are they trying to make a statement " Look at us we are a Green Corp " ? seems pointless to me .

Sorry I just don't buy into the WHOLE GREEN concept . Yes I do try to recycle where possible , Yet wether it is a Corp or private person the concept of being an ENVIRO -WACO , I just ain't feeling it .

Here in the USA I think most racing orgs have some type of Green program in effect ,I would assume the European and Asian racing markets dabble in it also ?

Not picking on any one Brand but if Being GREEN is such a big deal WHY do we very rarely hear anything about it from Ferrari , Porsche , Lambo etc; ?

I know they each have their Profit making spin off divisions !!

[Akrapovic]

Originally Posted by Bob Baldwin

Not picking on any one Brand but if Being GREEN is such a big deal WHY do we very rarely hear anything about it from Ferrari , Porsche , Lambo etc; ?

Because Ferrari and Lambo are selling supercars to rich oil giants and people who want expensive play toys.

Jaguar are selling cars to middle-upper class Brits, and are in competition with Mercedes, Audi and BMW, and they are most certainly making a lot of green noise. BMW has produced the i8 (and i3), and Mercedes are using Tesla developed batteries and drive trains in their new electric cars. Meanwhile Audi has the A3 e-tron, a plugin hybrid. And Lexus electric hybrids...the list goes on.

[Bob Baldwin]

I get your comment about Ferrari and Lambo selling to the Super Rich , Would certainly include Mclaren in with them . I also get your point about the $$$ dollar market that Jag , Merc , BMW etc; are catering to .

I don't really follow much of the Hybrid market here in the USA

Perhaps here NOW is the time to start a Spec Chevy Volt series

But then again the whole concept of auto racing is probably viewed by the Enviro Wacko's as totally a waste .

[Akrapovic]

I don't see why saving fuel is some sort of hippy enviro nonsense?

I don't like Formula E. It's slow, boring, sounds dull and I find the car saps ridiculous. However the concept of electric cars is sound. Saving fuel is good for for your wallet. And full electric cars will be needed one day because we will run out of oil to make petrol from. I'm no green supporter by any stretch of the imagination but I don't see the problem with saving fuel and finding new energy sources. Cars like the Tesla Model S are as good and sometimes better than the competition its in the same bracket as.

Remember that McLaren do have a hybrid. The P1.

[Deleted]

Yeah I don't give crap about FE but the root of the concept is what is coming sooner than later to this realm too.

I would like to see a 5 car mini proto electric class at Le Mans - you know assuming they had actual durable batteries and not the car swap nonsense like in FE.

[broadrun96]

Originally Posted by Chiana

Yeah I don't give crap about FE but the root of the concept is what is coming sooner than later to this realm too.

I would like to see a 5 car mini proto electric class at Le Mans - you know assuming they had actual durable batteries and not the car swap nonsense like in FE.

FE is pushing, although they did delay, for a single car, single battery product but that's why Jag would be interested. It is not a permanently frozen concept but there is development within the series to improve the cars. I think the FIA releases updates at a set schedule but have not kept up with the series much. And since that expense is spread across all of the teams it is much more marketable to bean counters and PR guys who can use that to sell to a wider audience. Do you really think Tesla S cross-shoppers would care what GT Jaguar is in? But with an electric background they can attempt to build another customer stream. And yes, that is well off of their classic stream but they don't show much interest in GT anymore.

But then if FE came to Road Atlanta I'd be there to check them out. Interesting concept and I'd like to see it advance and improve but the two races I've watched were dull. I would strike it up to as much to the tight city tracks as the racing.

[Hans Stuck Fan]

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

This has nothing to do with anything. It's its own entity, complete with its own budget and accountability. In the end, most corporations are essentially owned by global billionaire-and-more players. And the corporations liabilities extend to the amount of capital they carry, not their owner's gross capital. After all, that's why one creates a separate corporate entity.
Boundaries of liability.

Wow! Economics lesson. Merci.

I work for JLR and confirm that TATA has, thus far, been the blocker on a works-supported LM or GT programme. Don't know why though.

[Hans Stuck Fan]

Originally Posted by Ephaeton

This has nothing to do with anything. It's its own entity, complete with its own budget and accountability. In the end, most corporations are essentially owned by global billionaire-and-more players. And the corporations liabilities extend to the amount of capital they carry, not their owner's gross capital. After all, that's why one creates a separate corporate entity.
Boundaries of liability.

Hi buddy, just checked annual reports for 2014 financial year (2015 accounts must not be filed). JLR revenue was higher than Porsche AG. How the hell does a small manufacturer win Le Mans outright in 2015 and 2016.

[peebee2]

Porsche owns VW, Audi, Skosa, Seat, Bentley, Bugatti etc.

[TF110]

FE is cheap to get in and gives a phony green-image. All they have to do is get some guys that know how to setup the spec car and throw in a battery from another supplier. Brand it Jaguar and poof- instant PR.

[NaBUru38]

Formula E powertrains aren't spec. They have actual technology, you know.

[TF110]

Originally Posted by NaBUru38

Formula E powertrains aren't spec. They have actual technology, you know.

I didn't say the powertrain. I said the car as in the chassis.

[Richard C]

Your initial question is a fair one. And everyone is entitled to their own opinion. But using characterizations such as...

Originally Posted by Bob Baldwin

Enviro Wacko

...is a sign of your mindset (no offense intended) and an indication as to why you likely don't understand the appeal or why various manufactures do devote a significant amount of money into this type of thing. Alternative energy and its impact to automobiles is real and not a "fringe" thing. I am not saying I don't enjoy all of the goodness of classic internal combustion engines. I very much do! But unless we want Motorsports to become obsolete we need to find ways to adapt and survive. Formula E is a real toe in the water approach for a full electric series.

Originally Posted by Bob Baldwin

Not picking on any one Brand but if Being GREEN is such a big deal WHY do we very rarely hear anything about it from Ferrari , Porsche , Lambo etc; ?

Lamborghini is a niche player with a tight and narrow focus and really too small for this discussion. As already mentioned, Ferrari deals with a higher end crowd, but they still "going green" (if that is what you can call it). The V8 cars will be smaller displacement and turbos and the V12 will remain NA, but will be hybrids. All in the name of efficiency. Porsche is similar. Moving toward use of turbo for not just the top of the line cars (base 911 is now a turbo) and I think they are working on an all electric Telsa competitor (not sure if that has been approved or is just a design study at this point). In short, if you listen, those brands ARE making a big deal out of it.

Richard

[peebee2]

Moving to turbo is all part of euro efficiency laws where must have minimum economy across your whole range of cars manufactured, hence why Pirsche bought VW etc., and nothing to do with what they want to do m8

[chernaudi]

FE might be phony, but people are harping on the green message. As someone who likes the outdoors and nature, I do praise conservation efforts. But at the same time, I know fully well that most people who buy clean diesels or hybrids or even small econo slushboxes aren't doing it to be green per se. They're doing it to save money at the gas pumps. Granted, that does have a knock on effect of saving petroleum. But even though I'm a millennial (I'll be turning 30 in November), I can still remember the whining and moaning in the US about 15-20 years ago when people thought that anything much over a buck a gallon for gas was expensive. Now, we'd kill for those prices.