What is needed for the Open Wheel Phoenix to rise from the ashes?

[JohnSSC]

I am posting in the Champcar forum, but invite our friends from Indycar to post as well.

We are all fans of Open Wheel racing. We want Open Wheel to survive. Without getting into an Us Vs Them concerning IRL and CART, please post your comments about what Open Wheel needs to do to re-establish itself. We have to be honest: NASCAR is the big kid on the block - and they will probably remain so. How will Open Wheel survive?

Mods, I know this has been somewhat frictional in the past, your guidance on keeping this positive will be appreciated!

So what about it? What is needed before the Phoenix can rise from the ashes?

[JohnSSC]

I will give it a go. I am not a finance/marketing person, but neither series will survive long if they have to subsidize the teams. With a weaker economy, what will help race team survival?

[Valve Bounce]

Quite honestly, I don't think there is sufficient interst in the US to support both open wheel series. Unfortunately John, amalgmation is not possible, and I really cannot see Nascar suffer from the existance of IRL and CART. When you mentioned Phoenix, the only image that came to my mind was the vulture picking on the bones.

[macdaddy]

Television, television, and more television.
Billboards, billboards, and more billboards.
Public awareness, public awareness, and more public awareness.

[Lee Janotta]

Tony George needs to die or run out of money.

[f1manoz]

Well, since amalgamation of the two series is certainly not possible now, both will have to keep their core viewers while trying to bring in as many new ones as possible. Simple as that. How? Advertising their product to fans they know will want to view it.

But both CART and the IRL have to fight off NASCAR, who would prefer to see the demise of both series.

[macdaddy]

Rather a catch-22, isn't it? You get the television coverage when you get the fans, you get the fans when you get the television coverage.

[Liz]

It needs:

(1) Fans talking up the series positively (not saying "Losers! Failure! Bankruptcy! Gloom! Doom! Deserters! Despair! Foreigners!" all the time.)

(2) Fans going to the races and watching them and telling the networks, their friends, and the sponsors that they do so.

(3) Fans need to realise it is not an American Series but an International Series and act accordingly -- learn about the countries where the drivers come from, speak to them in their languages if you can, make signs in their language even better -- so the TV audience can see that we don't diss them because they're Furriners -- and encourage foreign sponsors too.

(4) Forget about NASCAR. Leave it out of your calculations. Ignore it. (Okay, ,watch it if you want to, but don't keep on obsessing over it compared to a niche sport like CWS. That's like obsessing that a broadcast of an opera won't gather the audience that "The Bachelor" will gather. They are two entirely different things.)

[indycool]

I'll try it, just IMO...

1. NASCAR doesn't care one way or the other. It minds its own business and builds its own product. It has always been this way. NASCAR doesn't care if either series lives or dies. ISC cares about growing IRL events at its facilities and ISC and NASCAR are pretty well married. NASCAR cares about the Brickyard 400. So, the ISC/NASCAR business ties are clearly with the IRL.

2. The IRL has stuck to its all-ovals program and is minding its own business trying to build open-wheel oval racing around the Indianapolis 500.

3. Throughout history, there has been a very clear definition between oval and road racing fans and supporters. There are few hardcore fans who are both.

4. In order to redefine itself, CART must ditch its two token ovals and become the premier road racing series in North America, forget about Indy and build on that, so it's clearly distinct from Indy and build its own road racing fan base, of which some is already in place.

[JohnSSC]

Good points - thank you, but remember this is not a CART vs IRL thread so those points should be left out.

Interesting comments about NASCAR. However I would submit that there should be some outreach going on as these are people who are already interested in motorsport. Not an attempt to supplant NASCAR, but to try to get some crossover.

I am sensing that there is an agreement though that an Open Wheel oval series can coexist with an Open Wheel road race series.

[paul-collins]

Originally posted by indycool
2. The IRL has stuck to its all-ovals program and is minding its own business trying to build open-wheel oval racing around the Indianapolis 500.

What about the chassis developments aimed at allowing the IRL - er, Indycar - chassis to turn right as well?

[rush1]

One open wheel series is needed to fight the dominance of NASCAR. Since the IRL now has the best teams and drivers (not to mention the Indy 500) it should be that series. That Indiana rocker John Cougar wrote "if you are not part of the future than get out of the way". And that is exactly what bptccwspbf should do - get out of the way

[JohnSSC]

rush1, I appreciate your participation, but I was looking for specific suggestions as opposed to sweeping generalizations. I do not think that this is a fight to overcome NASCAR dominance. One series alone could not contest that imho. I think the point here should be that motorsports in this country can take many forms. What can the Open Wheel-types do to enhance their own series' health?

John Cougar also wrote "little pink houses for you and me." A charming line but brings little in the way of illumination to the discussion! I'll be down at the "Cherry Bomb" "with our hearts really pumpin."

[MGF]

Not sure if I'm allowed to add my 2 pence worth but here goes..

I'n the UK (not sure that I can speak for the whole of Europe) Champcars are seen as a worthy racing alternative to the Farce that is F1. I think that it would be fair enough to say that few people seem really interested in IRL... This may change now that Franchitti has swapped his alegiances.

[JohnSSC]

You are certainly welcome to participate MGF!

[Liz]

We welcome everyone over here -- particularly people with ideas to share.

[Jordi]

The logical way would be to create a formula with everyone agreeing. Turbo engines that is. (F1's got NA ones, so let's be different) And just going together to the places like two brothers that had a fight but are again friendly.

Obviously this is out of this world thinking for some people, but I don't think it's good for one to prevail over the other. Put together the best of both, and you'll have a better product. Don't destroy, create.

[Snrub]

CART and IRL are weaker apart then there were as a whole. The problem is I can't see how they can get back together. IRL can make concessions to CART, but CART cannot make any concessions to the IRL. What the does the IRL do or have that is better that CART could adopt in a compromise negotiation? Basically CART says let's drive on your 1 track and you be apart of our series. The only compromise that would facilitate a deal would be to say "Tony, you get to run the series and take in most of the money." Does anyone, even IRL fans want that? Not to offend anyone, but Tony has all the bad qualities of Bernie without any of the cut-throat business sense.

[indycool]

John SSC, didn't mean to abuse the criteria and wasn't thinking of it in that light.

What I'm saying is that there's room for two open-wheel series. Actually, there's room for five major series (NASCAR Winston Cup, NASCAR Busch Series, CART, IRL and ALMS.)

I'm just saying to do it and have unique appeal, CART must differentiate itself from the IRL and others and go road racing.

Even though there's a huge high-priced glut of entertainment availabilities today, somehow many are surviving and thriving. Football's on an upswing, baseball on a downturn, but both are still very much alive.

The idea for any of these racing series should be to build a different product and build an audience. NASCAR has done that. For years, NASCAR was ignored by the mainstream media. Now, it's in a huge growth spurt and is recognized as a major-league sport almost universally in this country.

Other racing series don't need to be "fighting" NASCAR. That's not the only opponent for the entertainment or activities dollar. I'm sure on the days of the Daytona 500, Indianapolis 500 and Toyota Grand Prix of Long Beach, someone in this country will be playing in a youth soccer league, someone else will be having a picnic, someone else will go to a movie and others will go to baseball and basketball games.

It's not a fight for American motorsports supremacy. If that's anything, where's the trophy?

[JohnSSC]

indycool, I think you are closing in on the "sensible" view. When you think about it, on any given weekend you have autocross, drag races, dirt oval track (modifieds, sprinters etc), paved oval track, midgets, 3/4 midgets, sports cars, vintage, pro rally, Trans-Am, ALMS, CART, NASCAR, IRL, Grand-Am, IMSA and so on. Translation? It is a really big market with a lot of niche markets.

[indycool]

John SSC, think you said it in fewer words!

[JohnSSC]

Thanks! I know for myself I have watched dirt track and sprinters Friday night, gone to the sports car races on Saturday and then autocrossed on Sunday. Of course that was when I had disposable income, rather than disposing my income on dumb stuff like clothes and food for the kids!

That is the trick, developing the niche for open wheel to get those folks to go to Mid-Ohio or the Milwaukee Mile.

[Liz]

I got a press release today that said that NASCAR is doing away with autographs in the garages, and implying that it won't be long until NASCAR drivers become "royalty" like F1 drivers, locked away in a guarded paddock where they are only available to the Beautiful People and High Rollers -- ostensibly "so the guys can work." I have the distinct feeling and some of my NASCAR-fan friends have agreed, that if they do this, it will spell the end of their popularity. The one thing Americans insist on is ACCESS -- and it is the thing we heard at Montreal from casual fans more than anything else: "You can't get this kind of access in F1!" And it is of course Don Panoz' one unbreakable rule, that all the drivers must be accessible.

If NASCAR actually does pull their Celebrities behind barricades, this would be a golden PR opportunity for CWS and I hope they will grab it with both hands.

[macdaddy]

In keeping with that thought, Liz, here's another exerpt from the Pook interview posted in another thread...

"We have got to be public relations friendly, we have got to be marketing friendly, we have got to encourage people to come in to the series and we have got to open the paddock up even more so that the public can touch and feel our racing cars. We have put the hammer down on the autograph sessions. The public are able to communicate with the drivers and the cars much more."

[JohnSSC]

And that may be the key. Look at other sports and how certain personalities have enhanced the interest in that sport. Gretzky or Lemieux in hockey, Jordan in B-ball - you get the idea. I saw the NASCAR thing myself and found it interesting that now the drivers feel like there are too many people in the paddock. Especially in a sport where the safety gear encloses the driver it is nice to be able to "see" him or her.