Lotus drop two cars.

[Down F0rce]

Bryan Herta Autosport and Dreyer & Reinbold Racing will need to find new engines for Indianapolis.

http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...107/120423034/

[mountainstar]

Any surprise there?

[Paradise City]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Any surprise there?

I'm not. It'll hardly be the last of the bad news either.

[cos]

I think it's more a case of DRR/BHA dropping Lotus than the other way round.

[D.R.T.]

Good to see Chevy and Honda picking an engine lease for each of these teams

[Down F0rce]

Servia and Tagliani will be competitive at Indy, which may be the reason for this switch. This will free up Lotus engines for Shank and maybe Newman/Hass.

[GTRMagic]

The logical question might be whether the Lotus 'experience' actually supplies anyone at Indy... the Genii ownership thingumy seems up in the air still..

Can Mr Bourdais be competitive at the Indy 500 with a Lotus engine?

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by cos

I think it's more a case of DRR/BHA dropping Lotus than the other way round.

^^^^^^

[ptclaus98]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

The logical question might be whether the Lotus 'experience' actually supplies anyone at Indy... the Genii ownership thingumy seems up in the air still..

Can Mr Bourdais be competitive at the Indy 500 with a Lotus engine?

No, especially when you consider he wasn't all that great when he was there before when he had a competitive package.

[cos]

Originally Posted by ptclaus98

No, especially when you consider he wasn't all that great when he was there before when he had a competitive package.

Wasn't he running in the top 5 with a lap or so to go before hitting the wall? Not bad for a team that was just running the '500 that year.

[marcostraz]

Originally Posted by cos

Wasn't he running in the top 5 with a lap or so to go before hitting the wall? Not bad for a team that was just running the '500 that year.

Yes, you're right...

[Yannick]

If Shank Racing turns up with a Lotus engine, it should be clear who dropped who.

However, who would want to buy a road car from them after this debacle? Isn't it rather likely they completely pull out of the series for next year?

And how long might the new engine lease for DRR and BHA last? Just Indy and then it's back to the old Lotus maybe?

[icemachine]

There's been lots of previous years where an engine wasn't competitive to start but eventually recovers to become competitive if not dominant.

I think its far too early to write Lotus out, although I don't expect much from this season.

I thought there was also going to be 1 or 2 points in the season where engines could be modified to provide "equalization"?

[Nikki Katz]

Originally Posted by cos

I think it's more a case of DRR/BHA dropping Lotus than the other way round.

Hehe, quite.

I hope that this will mean that their 3-4 other entries will be more competitive. I'm not certain that'll happen though.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by Yannick

If Shank Racing turns up with a Lotus engine, it should be clear who dropped who.

However, who would want to buy a road car from them after this debacle? Isn't it rather likely they completely pull out of the series for next year?

And how long might the new engine lease for DRR and BHA last? Just Indy and then it's back to the old Lotus maybe?

Lotus sells about 700 road cars a year in the USA. I don't believe the 700 people that purchase those cars were influenced or could care that Lotus has their name on some backmarker irl cars.

[mythoughtsareracing]

I have a source in the media who has been in touch with BHA and Lotus.
And this whole situation reeks to high heaven.

Let's start with the Lotus press release, which I've shared in my Google Docs:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=1vFg...I_LEm-gb0Pd4oB

The first thing is the spin that Lotus is putting on this, namely that they dropped BHA & DRR, not the other way around. It is widely speculated that there were at least threats of legal action against Lotus from those two teams citing "breach of contract". Unfortunately, the deal is done and it's unlikely that we'll ever know how BHA and/or DRR feel the contract was breached by Lotus.

My source has been in contact with Olivier Picquenot, Manager of IndyCar racing at Lotus. He states, "The tests organise by Indycar or private test are not mandatory and we want to do it, the addition of two cars end of February change completely our plan of engines pool and make difficult the start of the season for us, our technical partner EDL and the teams."

This also sounds like "spin", although I think it smells more like a cow patty.
The teams were all originally have their engine contracts done late last year, as I recall, yet there were still teams without engine deals going into testing.
The teams that were confirmed with Lotus engines in mid-Feb were:
- HVM (1 car)
- BHA (1 car)
- DRR (1 car)

Shank wasn't confirmed, as they were still trying to put funding together.
So the cars putting the strain on Lotus could only be Dragon. We all know how late Bourdais got his motor. That may be partly due to finding funding for Bourdais' ride, but may also be related to Lotus' financial issues.

So why is it that two more engines for Lotus is a strain while two more at Honda or Chevy is business as usual? The short answer is money.
There is reason to believe that the legal issues that Lotus has been dealing with have resulted in their inability to pay Judd during development of the motor. Judd needed to make a business decision, and they stopped development until they got paid. It doesn't make good business sense to have lots of manpower spending lots of time developing a motor that may or may not wind up in a car on a race track, so Judd stopped working on it. When Lotus paid Judd, development resumed, but they were behind the curve, and that shows in the on-track performance of the Lotus cars.

This has more twists and turns than the first season of 24, I tell ya!


Now, I have also heard that the lack of power for the Lotus motors can be attributed (at least in part) to a temperature safety system that not only limits the power, but will also kill the motor if it reaches a certain temperature. The idea of saving the motors so they will run the distance required by IndyCar's rulebook makes sense, but it cost too much in the way of horsepower. Although I think this was more a matter of making sure the Lotus teams had working motors, as they were (and apparently still are!) in short supply.
Going into SaoPaulo and then Indianapolis, Lotus suddenly has more engines to work with, so they may be able to remove the temp safety system. In theory, this should improve the power of the Lotus cars, but nobody knows by how much.

The other thing is the availability of Lotus motors...
Will there be teams that take a stab at running Indy with a Lotus lump? It would lead to a larger car count, sure. But it also adds the potential for a full-season driver getting bumped from the 500.
I'm sure Lotus would hate for Simona to sit out on Memorial Day, since she is Lotus' flagship driver. Add in the drama of her accident at Indy last year and making the show in PorkChop with burns on her hands, and you've got a hell of a story!
And what of the teams that are sticking with Lotus instead of jumping ship, specifically Dragon? Bourdais has wrung the most out of that motor and had a couple of brilliant drives. I'm sure Lotus wants to see their black/gold livery running 'round The Brickyard. Don't know about Legge, though.

We know Shank wants to field a driver. So does Newman-Haas.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by mythoughtsareracing

I have a source in the media who has been in touch with BHA and Lotus.
And this whole situation reeks to high heaven.

My source has been in contact with Olivier Picquenot, Manager of IndyCar racing at Lotus. He states, "The tests organise by Indycar or private test are not mandatory and we want to do it, the addition of two cars end of February change completely our plan of engines pool and make difficult the start of the season for us, our technical partner EDL and the teams."

Nice job there burning your media buddy source on an open forum.

[mythoughtsareracing]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

Nice job there burning your media buddy source on an open forum.

Not burning anyone. I've got the OK to share the information.

Anyone with media access to teams, manufacturers, and PR outlets related to IndyCar would get the same.
And lets be honest, it's not hard to get media access to these groups.

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by mythoughtsareracing

Now, I have also heard that the lack of power for the Lotus motors can be attributed (at least in part) to a temperature safety system that not only limits the power, but will also kill the motor if it reaches a certain temperature. The idea of saving the motors so they will run the distance required by IndyCar's rulebook makes sense, but it cost too much in the way of horsepower. Although I think this was more a matter of making sure the Lotus teams had working motors, as they were (and apparently still are!) in short supply.

Going into SaoPaulo and then Indianapolis, Lotus suddenly has more engines to work with, so they may be able to remove the temp safety system. In theory, this should improve the power of the Lotus cars, but nobody knows by how much.

If you were going to cull the herd to better focus your efforts, my personal rankings of teams to keep would be:

Bourdais/Servia/Tagliani

Sorry to Simona and Katherine, but those 3 are better than each of you. In Simona's case she's kinda marketable as a female driver, the fans respect her due to her past efforts and knowing she's in a crap car, and per Cavin Tuesday night, HVM are the one Lotus team 100% fully on board with them. Legge gets added on because she's Bourdais' teammate and Jay Penske would say all or nothing (and Jay Penske may have done the same thing of wanting out, although that means Bourdais loses his sponsorship if they're receiving any money for having Lotus on the sidepod).

The whole thing goes back to how people want technical diversity in grids but fail to realize that if you're a team with a driver and sponsorship, with the level of money we're talking about here, you're not going to handicap yourself with an inferior car and engine intentionally unless you're desperate or have no better offers. It's a bit like the tires in sportscar racing for a number of years. Everyone knew Michelin was far and away superior, and the rest of the grid that had Dunlops or whatever, it wasn't because they were trying to develop an alternative or received any money there, it was because Michelin chose not to supply them. Jay Penske's team could be in that position now with engines.

Shank fielding Howard at Indy seems more likely than ever as Lotus needs the bullets.

The one bit of this that does not make any sense is Newman/Haas, unless Carl is letting all these teams suffer and work out the bugs and then he swoops in to become the "Factory Lotus" team in 2013 or 2014 and profit off all these teams' labor.

Yannick: However, who would want to buy a road car from them after this debacle?

Buy a Lotus road car? First, I don't know where I could do that if I wanted to. Second, if you're one of the people that does that why would you do it based on an Indycar race?

[mythoughtsareracing]

Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan

If you were going to cull the herd to better focus your efforts, my personal rankings of teams to keep would be:

Bourdais/Servia/Tagliani

Sorry to Simona and Katherine, but those 3 are better than each of you. In Simona's case she's kinda marketable as a female driver, the fans respect her due to her past efforts and knowing she's in a crap car, and per Cavin Tuesday night, HVM are the one Lotus team 100% fully on board with them. Legge gets added on because she's Bourdais' teammate and Jay Penske would say all or nothing (and Jay Penske may have done the same thing of wanting out, although that means Bourdais loses his sponsorship if they're receiving any money for having Lotus on the sidepod).

The whole thing goes back to how people want technical diversity in grids but fail to realize that if you're a team with a driver and sponsorship, with the level of money we're talking about here, you're not going to handicap yourself with an inferior car and engine intentionally unless you're desperate or have no better offers. It's a bit like the tires in sportscar racing for a number of years. Everyone knew Michelin was far and away superior, and the rest of the grid that had Dunlops or whatever, it wasn't because they were trying to develop an alternative or received any money there, it was because Michelin chose not to supply them. Jay Penske's team could be in that position now with engines.

Shank fielding Howard at Indy seems more likely than ever as Lotus needs the bullets.

The one bit of this that does not make any sense is Newman/Haas, unless Carl is letting all these teams suffer and work out the bugs and then he swoops in to become the "Factory Lotus" team in 2013 or 2014 and profit off all these teams' labor.

That's the thing...
Lotus didn't make the decision to "cull the herd". The teams made the choice. It's some serious spin on Lotus' part to appear like they've done nothing wrong.

It seems apparent that the teams that are moving away from Lotus also have a bit more in the bank to press the issue. I've heard reports that BHA, at least, is paying off the Lotus lease (all or in part, depending on who you believe) as well as paying full fare on a Honda lease.

Buy a Lotus road car? First, I don't know where I could do that if I wanted to. Second, if you're one of the people that does that why would you do it based on an Indycar race?

I want to buy a Judd!

[Yannick]

Originally Posted by Flyin Ryan

Buy a Lotus road car? First, I don't know where I could do that if I wanted to. Second, if you're one of the people that does that why would you do it based on an Indycar race?

No, I don't want to buy any car at all but Lotus must have at least some kind of a point for engaging themselves in motorsport. That's selling road cars isn't it?

[Flyin Ryan]

Originally Posted by mythoughtsareracing

That's the thing...
Lotus didn't make the decision to "cull the herd". The teams made the choice. It's some serious spin on Lotus' part to appear like they've done nothing wrong.

It can be spin but I think everyone is capable of seeing through it. Lotus would have a bad reputation with fans if they said they were kicking out Bryan Herta (defending Indy 500 champion race team) and Dreyer & Reinbold (along with Foyt, Panther, and Schmidt the last pre-CART crossover teams left in the field) and those teams didn't have an engine to land on. I was just pointing out if it was a Lotus decision, you'd axe Legge and de Silvestro based on performance.

It seems apparent that the teams that are moving away from Lotus also have a bit more in the bank to press the issue. I've heard reports that BHA, at least, is paying off the Lotus lease (all or in part, depending on who you believe) as well as paying full fare on a Honda lease.

Unless there's legal issues on the team's part with breaking away from Lotus, why would you subject yourself to paying two engine leases to enter one car?

[Down F0rce]

Looks like two more Lotus cars set for the chop:

http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...IndyStar.com|s

If this goes ahead, that'll leave HVM as the only regular Lotus on the grid, with perhaps one more for Jean Alesi at Indy (Fan Force United).

[icemachine]

According to Cavin's story, Dragon is suing Lotus for breach of Contract

http://www.indystar.com/article/2012...ne-maker-Lotus

[MagVanisher]

Originally Posted by Down F0rce

Looks like two more Lotus cars set for the chop:

http://www.indystar.com/article/20120507/NEWS02/120507030/Dragon-Racing-severing-ties-engine-maker-Lotus?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|IndyStar.com|s

If this goes ahead, that'll leave HVM as the only regular Lotus on the grid, with perhaps one more for Jean Alesi at Indy (Fan Force United).

Well, it seems that it's gonna be a two-engine series now... If Lotus would pull out of IndyCar, then who's gonna replace it?

If they do, I think IndyCar must find an engine supplier for next year... Maybe Volkswagen, Mercedes, or even Fiat will take the third spot.