Britain and Ireland in the ERC?

[leonidas]

There has recently been talk about us trying to get back into the European Rallycross Championship... anyone know if any concrete progress has been made? You'd think that Britain / Ireland would be a logical pairing for the 'double weekender' format that the ERC favour...

Anyone know what the criteria are for making a bid for inclusion? Presumably the ERA make the final decision in consultation with the FIA off-road commission?

[BertMk2]

A pairing of Mondello/Brands would be good but is it really likely to happen when there aren't any British or Irish drivers competing in the full ERC (as opposed to occasional events). I think you'd need a few years where there is a consistent British/Irish presence before the ERC would consider a round in Britain or Ireland (let alone a double header). Having said that, a round at Brands would probably be a huge success (Mr Palmer would no doubt bring in a substantial crowd for that one).

[winnie]

Don't think that there is any Belgium, Turkish, Chinese, Malasian etc drivers in GP, but they visit these countries.

If the British organisers can offer the right package then i'm sure that the Europeans would jump at Brands, and would proberbly go to Croft or Lydden. Ireland is too far away and needs two ferry crossings, so can't see it working.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by winnie

Don't think that there is any Belgium, Turkish, Chinese, Malasian etc drivers in GP, but they visit these countries.

Very true In some of these cases the Government of the country in question has stumped up the cash required to attract and promote the event (no chance of that happening for rallycross ) Belgium gets a GP becuase it's got Spa - don't need another reason (I'm not struggling to think of one at all )

I think Brands could do the ERC justice, an event there would certainly see big crowds (the British championship pulled in good crowds at Brands), Brands has got more of a chance than either Lydden or Croft - just being Brands Hatch gives it a certain amount of prestige (rightly or wrongly).

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

I think you'd need a few years where there is a consistent British/Irish presence before the ERC would consider a round in Britain or Ireland (let alone a double header) .

I've heard this said - but Poland and Germany have ERC rounds despite having a very limited number of ERC drivers. In Div 1 Will Gollop scored more points last year than the Polish and German drivers! There aren't many Germans and Poles even at their 'home' ERC meetings and the German domestic championship is much weaker than the British and Irish...

I've nothing against Poland and Germany having ERC rounds - but surely the British and Irish are at least as deserving of an ERC slot. I'm sure there would be more Brits and Irish on the ERC circuit if the ERC had a presence here.

[BertMk2]

Originally Posted by leonidas

I'm sure there would be more Brits and Irish on the ERC circuit if the ERC had a presence here.

Quite possibly, it's kind of a chicken and egg scenario really isn't it? To get it here you need more drivers in it, but you need it here to get more drivers in it. I think the chances of getting a round here would certainly be increased if MSV showed an interest - although is the current Brands rallycross layout good enough for the ERC? (main straight too long?).


I appear to be hopping from one side of the argument to the other and back again at the moment There's nothing like being decisive!

[WJM]

Hungary has got the ERC next year and they never had championship regulars, and if they had drivers going abroad they were only marginally competitive. They also don't have Division 1a and Division 2 class, while you have sort of something with the RPL-races.

Has anyone in the UK actually applied for an ERC-round since 1998? Lydden isn't up to ERC standard, but I suppose Croft and Brands Hatch are? There is nothing in the regulations about the length of a straight, but a track must be maximum 60% tarmac, so maybe Brands fails there? Or is the gradient to steep? It can only be maximum 7% and 10% on old tracks?

[Barrie]

I don't think Brands would work, ERC races run with 4 drivers during qualifying, the circuits too big for that, even with a 10 car grid in the old GP's the cars were pretty spread out, Croft's abit that way as well. Lydden is probably the best rallycross track in the world, obvious choice.

[HrRACING]

But Lydden hasn't got the facilities unfortunatly.

[Nittymaki]

The only way a Biritsh or Irish track can have the ERC is if they pay around 14k for a track inspection, have an event observed, have a start line with the width of starting 5 cars side by side, have a starting grid off the main track, catch fencing around the spectator areas, protected start line, and around 60k worth of sponsorship to afford all of the above plus running costs, cirucit hire, tv, and prize money.

The above means that Croft is the only likely option with a little bit of work and track inspection and major sponsorship.

[WJM]

Originally Posted by Nittymaki

The only way a Biritsh or Irish track can have the ERC is if they pay around 14k for a track inspection, have an event observed, have a start line with the width of starting 5 cars side by side, have a starting grid off the main track, catch fencing around the spectator areas, protected start line, and around 60k worth of sponsorship to afford all of the above plus running costs, cirucit hire, tv, and prize money.

The above means that Croft is the only likely option with a little bit of work and track inspection and major sponsorship.

You sure about that? Because I'm certain Melk, Austria in 2004 had the startline on the maintrack. Also catchfencing doesn't have to be all round and can be avoided be elevating the spectator area (or lowering the track), but I don't know if that will be actually cheaper. Also what tv do you mean? English tv, to give it extra appeal for a sponsor to pay for all the changes?

[Peter Mallett]

Wouldn't Brands be able to comply with the regs?

[Barrie]

Originally Posted by HrRACING

But Lydden hasn't got the facilities unfortunatly.

Think Austria and Poland have.

[HrRACING]

lol, hows that going to help?

[Cryos]

Originally Posted by BertMk2

A pairing of Mondello/Brands would be good but is it really likely to happen when there aren't any British or Irish drivers competing in the full ERC (as opposed to occasional events). I think you'd need a few years where there is a consistent British/Irish presence before the ERC would consider a round in Britain or Ireland (let alone a double header). Having said that, a round at Brands would probably be a huge success (Mr Palmer would no doubt bring in a substantial crowd for that one).

Mondello would have the facilities, not sure exactly where you would run the cars tho for the european style start grid ? There is also talk of a second circuit which would be accomedating rallycross to be built quiet near mondello infact but ive not heard anymore of this ? (was in planning permission stages last i heard? any local kildare lads around *looks at Roundy moody* heard anything on the vine ?)

[PhergAthor]

Poland no ERC regulars? What about Groblewski and Laskowski? They went for the titel in D1a. Also guys like Kasiborski attend to several events. They drive good, recent and fast models. ERC is more than D1 alone.
The fact that the UK don't have the D2 and D1a class, doesn't help.
For the tracks, you do not need catching fence when there are 20 meters of gravel between the track and the spectators.
Poland has a ERC-round because the greenies are not very active there, they have a growing national grid and their facilities are one of the best in Europe (both for drivers and spectators)
Germany is commercially a big market, and they have a beautifull track. The facilities are rubbish, but it is a classic.

[leonidas]

Originally Posted by PhergAthor

Poland no ERC regulars? What about Groblewski and Laskowski? They went for the titel in D1a. Also guys like Kasiborski attend to several events.

Sure but Poland does not have any Div 1 regulars - the pinnacle of the sport. Groblewski was their top driver in Div 1a - he ran well but he only did half the ERC events (finished 9th overall). Apart from Tyszkiewicz (Div 2) they have no current regulars (championship challengers) in any class.

Some of the European tracks are great - but are any better than Brands...?

[GeeRam]

I think the great days of an ERC round in the UK are pretty much gone for good.

The problems associated with the Lydden sale to McClaren and the daft idea of deciding to ‘go it alone’ with a different set of car regs signed the death warrant for ERC Rallycross in the UK. I never understood it, as at the time, the crowds at events were at their peak and they let that just disappear. To build that all up again will be very hard to do, in terms of making it attractive for potential event sponsors or to attract TV like it used to do.
Lydden is still the spiritual home of rallycross and probably still the fans and drivers favourite as well, and could be brought up to scratch, with money spent on it and Croft worked well for the 1987 Internations and has good access to the Scandinavian ferry network from the northern ports. Only one of these 2 circuits would work I feel. I don’t think Brands could work for the ERC in the same way it did for the old RallyX GP events.
A double header with an Irish round would work well I would think, compared to years ago, as I remember going to the Mondello ERC round around June time, when the British round was always in it’s traditional mid-September slot at Lydden. I think those ERC Mondello events suffered from a relative lack of support from some regular ERC drivers even back then due to it’s location. I would think a Croft/Mondello pairing would be the best in terms of ferry accessibility and the least travelling between locations.

[leonidas]

I'm not clear why an ERC round is such an impossibility...?

(1) Take grid levels:

The RPL managed to get a capacity 20 Div1 cars and 30 Supernationals/Div 1a/mods for the Superprix. This was a non-championship event at the end of a long season and several top GB/Ireland drivers were missing. Yet they still filled the grid.

Now look at the ERC round entries. Two rounds failed even to fill the Div 1 class - Norway (13 point scorers) and Austria (15). Only one round (France) filled its maximum grid of 16 for each class (1, 1a, 2).

(2) Venue

Are we really saying GB doesn't have a suitable track - or at least one that couldn't be adapted with a reasonable amount of expenditure? Croft and Knock Hill are BTCC and GT tracks; Brands has hosted just about every major racing series you can name; Lydden is still recognised overseas as the 'home' of rallycross...

(3) TV

TV coverage is patchy even in those countries that have the ERC so its difficult everywhere. However if the Revival Rally can get airtime (a great competition, but essentially a clubmen event), surely an ERC round with WRC-bred supercars should be easy to sell to a satellite broadcaster....?

???