Moving battery

[LCRTrackcar]

Hay all

I'm track prepping my road car for being a track car. It's a FWD Seat Leon Cupra R which is not ideal but my first track car forray so it's what I'm using.
I have coilovers and when I'm a bit better at driving the car I'll be looking to get the car corner balanced.
Thinking of this in the furture where is the best place in my car for the OEM battery? I'm sticking with OEM just now as there is lots to be spend and OEM will do just now.
Am I better to put this in the passengers side foot well to try and spread the weight of be a bit?
Am I better to put this as central in the car as possible, like behind the front seats on the floor?
Or is the spare wheel well as far forward as possible the right place?

Thank you in advance, sorry it's a bit of a mundane question for all you very technical guys but thought this was a good place to start.

[XKRacer]

You might find this thread informative


Click here http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117042


Sorry couldn't resist

[GORDON STREETER]

I shouldn't bother as it won't make any difference that you will be able to tell.
Unless you are building an out and out racer looking for that last Nth, you are just wasting your time IMHO.
The only thing that might help is to leave it in the pit lane so the car would be lighter !
On a more sensible note why isn't a Cupra R not an ideal track car ?

[LCRTrackcar]

Yeh, I have read this but not really more informed after.

[LCRTrackcar]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

I shouldn't bother as it won't make any difference that you will be able to tell.
Unless you are building an out and out racer looking for that last Nth, you are just wasting your time IMHO.
The only thing that might help is to leave it in the pit lane so the car would be lighter !
On a more sensible note why isn't a Cupra R not an ideal track car ?

Well I'm going to be moving it anyway to give me a better induction set up so as I'm moving it I thought I'd try and find out the best place to put it.
Well it's FWD, heavy, long quite high and driven by a novice, lol

[GORDON STREETER]

Originally Posted by LCRTrackcar

Well it's FWD, heavy, long quite high and driven by a novice, lol

Well if I was you I would use it just as it is until you can "explore" its limits before you start fiddling about, and then you have got a benchmark.
Although its impossible to put an old head on young shoulders you will find that if you want to go faster then its more down to your driving input than anything else !

[LCRTrackcar]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

Well if I was you I would use it just as it is until you can "explore" its limits before you start fiddling about, and then you have got a benchmark.
Although its impossible to put an old head on young shoulders you will find that if you want to go faster then its more down to your driving input than anything else !

Thank you Gordon.
I will use the LCR for a few years to come. As you say I'm learning on this car what hopefully I can use on a more track suited car in the future.
I know my driving is probably the limiting factor in the lap times just now but want to keep up the modifying momentum as there are lots of things I want to do to the car and want to spread these out whilst still using the car rather than it ending up and never finished not used project.
So basically I'll stick the battery in the spare wheel well and I shouldn't feel any disadvantages of this?
I do plan to get a dry cell/gel battery at some point but not any time soon.

Thenk you for your help.

Willie

[Al Weyman]

If it was rwd I would say put it in the boot as a well know chevy camaro chassis tuner said its equivilant to moving the engine back 10" however FWD may be a totally different ball game where you may want more weight over the driven wheels.

[GORDON STREETER]

Cheers, I expected a mouthful of abuse ! (don't worry I can take it) The thing is if you don't establish a benchmark you will alter something before the next outing and find that you are a bit faster, when all that's probably happened is you have got better. Never alter two things at once and don't forget to really find out if the mods are working you should use the same track as a comparison against the same cars that you will probably find yourself out with. I would start off by throwing any unnecessary bits in the bin if its a dedicated track car to get weight off, but a gel battery although "lighter" isn't "that light" and not very cost effective in that dept. Don't buy enormous great bling wheels and tyres as the road ones normally weigh a ton and you will get a better feel (and faster) with "standardish" ones ! I wish you all the best and keep out of the kitty litter
Yes Al but the Yank batteries weigh about 3cwt !

[Al Weyman]

Yeah well they need to have a bit of poke to crank an 8 banger 11:1 comp 5.7 litre engine and I would rather not be maginal on that score when stranded halfway across the track and the engine wont fire and the pack is approaching fast! Actually I did that on cold tyres last week on the out lap of qualiy at the rock! duh!

[bdwoody]

why would you need lots of poke in the battery al ? a mate of mine had a v8 in a boat and the starter packed up on cowes firework night so he wrapped a rope round the front pully and pull started the thing !!!!!

[GORDON STREETER]

Al ain't the youngster he was

[bdwoody]

hmmmm yes gordon .....lol

[JohnD]

Willy,
If you need to move it from the engine bay for room there, put it in the boot, not with you in the passenger space.
Why?
A/ Even a European car's battery is bl**dy heavy, and battery boxes aren't made like they used to be. If the worst happens, you don't want it on your lap, or in your face.
B/ Unless you lash out on a dry battery, even "sealed" lead/acid ones can leak, especially if knocked about. That acid is really strong!

John
PS WHY are battery boxes so crap these days? However much you pay, all you get is a thin plastic box, about as much strength as a washing up bowl, top held on by two (TWO!) spire clips, doesn't fit anyway. My old GRP box is rigid, strong and the top's held on by four fixed bolts and knurled thumb nuts; so much better!
Rant over. J.

[Al Weyman]

I dont think the batterybox was ever meant to support the weight of a heavy battery in a roll situation but its purpose just to stop acid spillage, if you look at the installation of mine in my hatchback (IROC yes it is a hatchback just a big un) we have the battery in the rear in a box but with a very stout 1" steel strap bolted across the top of the box once the battery is fited inside the box. To rely on some bolts securing a fiberglass box to the floor would be daft.

[LCRTrackcar]

Originally Posted by JohnD

Willy,
If you need to move it from the engine bay for room there, put it in the boot, not with you in the passenger space.
Why?
A/ Even a European car's battery is bl**dy heavy, and battery boxes aren't made like they used to be. If the worst happens, you don't want it on your lap, or in your face.
B/ Unless you lash out on a dry battery, even "sealed" lead/acid ones can leak, especially if knocked about. That acid is really strong!

John
PS WHY are battery boxes so crap these days? However much you pay, all you get is a thin plastic box, about as much strength as a washing up bowl, top held on by two (TWO!) spire clips, doesn't fit anyway. My old GRP box is rigid, strong and the top's held on by four fixed bolts and knurled thumb nuts; so much better!
Rant over. J.

Thanks John.

I have removed all the interior in the quest for better power/weight ratio.
As my car is a hatch back the whole passenger space is as one. So on moving the battery out of the engine bay it will always be in the passenger area. Point taken about battery acid and will look into a proper battery box for it.

I don't really need any more weight over the front wheels as the engine and gear box is doing plenty of that for me.

Perhaps I'll be just aswell getting a dry cell battery rather than getting a sealed battery box.

Thanks for you help guys, I thought you were going to be a tuffer crowd slagging off my lardy assed choice of a track car, but as you have read it wasn't chosen to be a track car, its just becoming one out of cost/handiness.

What are the benefits/downfalls of a dry cell or gel battery?

[terence]

I have had a look through the thread,so not exactly crashing in.Sounds like your taking the correct route anyway.Battery in the boot,keeps it nice and low etc,what about any unused brackets around the car? The old BTCC saying of 'Nothing gets a free ride' should help as well.It is possible to save three to five kg from the average saloon on these alone,as you seem to want to save as much as possible,could help

[GORDON STREETER]

The basics of Acid v Gel.
Downsides of acid. Normally heavier, larger. acid spill on inversion or crash,
Upsides ------- Cheaper and available anywhere, will hold charge longer
Downsides of gel. Obviously dearer. don't like being left discharged for long,and as they are smaller cranking capacity is shorter.
Upsides -------smaller and easier to locate and on their side, lighter,safer.
I'm sure there are other factors for both but they are the only ones that spring to mind.

I will ad that when I ran my Fastcar Mag sponsored car I used a standard car battery. I won lots of races and a championship. Also depending on sizes an acid battery will hold a charge longer if you are not using a charging system.

[LCRTrackcar]

Originally Posted by terence bower

I have had a look through the thread,so not exactly crashing in.Sounds like your taking the correct route anyway.Battery in the boot,keeps it nice and low etc,what about any unused brackets around the car? The old BTCC saying of 'Nothing gets a free ride' should help as well.It is possible to save three to five kg from the average saloon on these alone,as you seem to want to save as much as possible,could help

Yup you've got it right, nothing gets a free ride in my motor, if you not doing a very good job your out!!

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

The basics of Acid v Gel.
Downsides of acid. Normally heavier, larger. acid spill on inversion or crash,
Upsides ------- Cheaper and available anywhere, will hold charge longer
Downsides of gel. Obviously dearer. don't like being left discharged for long,and as they are smaller cranking capacity is shorter.
Upsides -------smaller and easier to locate and on their side, lighter,safer.
I'm sure there are other factors for both but they are the only ones that spring to mind.

I will ad that when I ran my Fastcar Mag sponsored car I used a standard car battery. I won lots of races and a championship. Also depending on sizes an acid battery will hold a charge longer if you are not using a charging system.

Thank you Gordon, as said its a lardy assed car or 1,356Kgs so anything I can do the shed some of these Kgs I will. And no 'I' don't have alot to lose
I know that being able to drive will top the scales on a guy that can't drive that well with a very light car. I hope to tick both boxes.

Think I'll look into gel batteries, the one I have just now has done good for 100,000 miles and 6 1/2 years so would be a good time to change it anyway. Not too worried about the discharging as will be driven quite alot and be on trickle charge during the winter months.

Thank you for all you help with this

Willie