Chevron B31

[p261brm]

Chevron B31#5 Original chassis/tub as constructed 1975 as at 28/10/2010, to be replaced with completely new constructed unit for car to be rebuilt

[allenbrown]

Whose Chevron B31 #05 is this? There are two such cars at present aren't there?

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Whose Chevron B31 #05 is this? There are two such cars at present aren't there?

Not prepared to divulge Allen as I am sure you will appreciate. But this tub is original. It is well past it's sell by date, and a partial refurb out of the question on safety grounds for a useable race car. As to other claiments to #5 I have no knowledge, and not even entering again into the realms of finger pointing. It may well be the new tub will not be numbered as such. I posted this out of pure historical reference to B31/5 current condition and existance. I have as you know made my views known on replacement chassis.

[p261brm]

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65024

There are references to this chassis, B31#5 in the above thread. The tub has been modified and re=enforced to accommodate the DFV, and as raced in 1976 by Raymond/Blakeney. Research so far carried out seems to indicate this tub is the original chassis 5 and later modified. It is not known if the modifications were carried out at 105 Chorley Old Road.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by p261brm

http://tentenths.com/forum/showthread.php?t=65024

There are references to this chassis, B31#5 in the above thread. The tub has been modified and re=enforced to accommodate the DFV, and as raced in 1976 by Raymond/Blakeney. Research so far carried out seems to indicate this tub is the original chassis 5 and later modified. It is not known if the modifications were carried out at 105 Chorley Old Road.

Update, following more investigation, the modifications to this tub, for the DFV, would not appear to have been carried out at Bolton. Certainly some work re welding is defintely not Bolton, though the central section has all the hallmarks of being pure Chevron. Chassis B31-5 was supplied new to Martin Raymond, now confirmed from original records.

[allenbrown]

For the record, there appear to be two B31s currently referencing the identity of B31-75-05. One is in Fisons livery and has been raced recently by Doug Titford and Trevor Reeves; according to the Chevron Heritage site, this is the ex-Raymond/Blanckley/Götz car. The other is white with a blue stripe and has been raced recently by Mike Roberts; it has been for sale on racecarsdirect.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

For the record, there appear to be two B31s currently referencing the identity of B31-75-05. One is in Fisons livery and has been raced recently by Doug Titford and Trevor Reeves; according to the Chevron Heritage site, this is the ex-Raymond/Blanckley/Götz car. The other is white with a blue stripe and has been raced recently by Mike Roberts; it has been for sale on racecarsdirect.

There are 2 claims to #5 and that statement seems to be correct Alan. [1]B31-5 now owned by John Ruston. If this is the ex Raymond/Blakeney car, supplied new to Martin Raymond confirmed by Paul Owens from the original works chassis book, it should, if it is the original tub bear all the hallmarks of being fitted with a DFV as raced by them in 1976.
[2] The other chassis #5 to which I refer, is currently being used as a template to construct a completely new chassis, and has been fitted with a DFV. at some stage in it's life. Unless of course there could be 3 claims to DBE B31-5.!
I use this as an example, why I submit, that once a car bearing an original chassis number, is re-built with a completely new tub/chassis, the resultant car can never claim to be 'THE CAR' as so often claimed in for sale adverts, also in my humble [no pun intended] opinion makes a complete mockery of race series regulations laying claim to originality in period clauses.

[DougT]

I'm not sure where John Ruston comes into this !

I have verified that my chassis which is being worked on at the moment is the correct B31-05. The history is very clear as Martin Raymond sold it to John Blanckney (See Autosport race report of Zolder Interserie Race June 12th 1976 where Raymond drove it to 1st place with the DFV for Blanckney). Blanckney sold it to Rolf Gotz who sold it to Rosso Bianco Museum, from where it came into my hands with the DFV that was originally fitted by Blanckney.

My tub (which was modified by John Blanckney) has a number of oddities which it shares with the original tubs of the other 2 B31s that are around indicating that they were all built like that, so I can be very confident that I have the original tub.

I have seen Mike Roberts car which was for sale via racecarsdirect and is now for sale at Maxted Page. It is not a B31 chassis, the front bulkhead incorrect and would seem to come from an earlier vintage, and there are other inconsistencies. The chassis plate is also not correct for chevrons of the period.

As to originality, I feel it is important to retain as much of the original as possible for the record even if for safety sake, the car that you race contains many new parts. I will be retaining the original tub in which the history resides but it is certainly not safe to race it after this length of time and with the damage that it has sustained.

Hope this clarifies things !

Doug T

[allenbrown]

Welcome Doug, and thanks for posting that explanation which appears to clear up the situation.

When you bought the car (via Bonhams?) did it come with any documentation showing when it was sold from Gotz to the Rosso Bianco? Also, as Gotz had two Chevrons at different times, it would be useful to know the date he bought the B31 if you have anything that ties that down.

If your provenance is completely bulletproof, I'm sure Lee would want to modify what he has said about the car he is advertising. He has added further information recently about that car, taking its history back to Richard Simms in 1980. I'm still working on taking it back further.

[DougT]

Hi Allen,

I am sure the provenance for my chassis is bulletproof.

To demonstrate this conclusively, I would need to bring a third party into this discussion. As it is a public discussion, I think I should gain his permission first but suffice to say that he has known this car throughout it's life....(!)

On the technical/physical side, there are many little details, especially with the DFV conversion that you would not know unless you had worked on the car, and the physical evidence is on the old tub. I can give you a little example; if you look at the 76 Zolder pictures (See RSC), there are water pipes mounted on the outside of the sills. The holes for the clips to mount the external pipes are in my old tub. OK this could be copied but there are many little details like this which all fit together.

Obviously I am pulling together as much history as I can because I think that my car may be the only Chevron to have run a DFV in period, which means that I can run it as a 2 litre or DFV. The B23 DFV appears to have been run out of period. Indeed the "B31-DFV" for Mauro Nesti in the 77 Targa Florio, which originally I thought might possibly have been my car on loan, actually turns out to more likely be a B23 DFV. The B36 DFV again appears to have run out of period.

Regarding Rolf's other Chevron, if you look at the results for the last 2 Interserie races for 78, both John Blanckley (not Blanckney as in my previous post - apologies I must have had a spelling crisis yesterday), and Rolf Gotz both finished in different Chevrons. So my conclusion is that Rolf had a B23 from 76 to 78. And the sale of my B31 took place in early 79.

I emailed Maxted Page a few days ago and given them my phone number if they want more info to verify my side of things, but not had a response yet. But I hope you are right in that they would want to get their information correct.

[p261brm]

Doug would appear to have dotted eyes n' crossed tee's on my original post...

[monzagorrilla]

There is an Autosport item on the Chevron DFV for Tondelli being ordered to run on the mountain racing of Europe I am not sure off top of my head if it was B23 or 26 that was being built
Out of curiosity where did the chevron come from that Mike roberts sold? USA?
When i last saw it at Brands it was hart powered
I know of another B23 with dfv in it never raced in period like it though
Richard Piper raced the B26 in thundersports with a dfv

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by monzagorrilla

There is an Autosport item on the Chevron DFV for Tondelli being ordered to run on the mountain racing of Europe I am not sure off top of my head if it was B23 or 26 that was being built

The Tondelli DFV car was a B23 built originally for the Tecno engine. It was rebuilt by Chevron for 1974 with a B26 rear end, F5000 brakes and B26 bodywork.

[allenbrown]

Originally Posted by monzagorrilla

Out of curiosity where did the chevron come from that Mike roberts sold?

The Maxted Page advert gives a history that takes it back to Richard Simms buying it from Sweden c1980. Simms owned the ex-Marsland B26/31 about this time (which Murray Smith now owns) so the histories prior to that may have become confused. Simms had raced the ex-Marsland Chevron as a Skoda for a while. I believe it is that car that went to Leif Lindström in Sweden and later returned but I will admit that I'm not at all certain.

[monzagorrilla]

Tecno engine was it the V8 or V12 F1 lump?
I presume the Marsland B26/31 was a B26 chassis with 31 bodywork and not a hybrid B26 chassis with 31 suspension so therefore its really a B26
The B26 that Murray Smith has was previously raced by Richard Evans and he is not far from where Simms lived so logical that Jim Evans acquired the B26 from Simms after it was "Skoda rised"

[allenbrown]

Why don't you ask Richard? You get on pretty well with him don't you?

[monzagorrilla]

On my to do list
I am sure i have either asked that question or had half the info in a response on other matters I will dig out the old replies before I ask him some more direct questions
I am always intrigued by the entries of 21/23 or 26/31 cars etc
I have always presumed the cars are really the older model car with the later update body kit which is often just a 2 minute body swap over to make the car look like a newer model but i now ownder if owners went a stage further and ordered new wishbones or parrallel links etc to update the suspension spec

Around the factory may have offered updates mods for tyre sizes or branding used on cars in different countries when some one ordered a new model tail section for the older car
As we know the B19 21 23 are spaceframe cars but the 26 model was the first alloy monocoque but i think it was not a fill monocoque in having front end rear end space frame for suspension ( i await any corrections) and the B31 36 cars where the full monocoque chassis cars
We also have to consider that in period these mods or new chassis designs where on going developments looking for half to 1/2 second a lap gains that are required to generate car sales each season as well as bring in new customers and the laurels

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

The Tondelli DFV car was a B23 built originally for the Tecno engine. It was rebuilt by Chevron for 1974 with a B26 rear end, F5000 brakes and B26 bodywork.

This is the car is it not, lately rebuilt with DFV and owned by the late Fred Goddard and son,
http://www.fredgoddardracing.co.uk/

Do not know about half a second a lap, in my day the improvements were made to stay ahead of the Lola's et al.

[DougT]

Not sure if this is the Tondelli car but certainly could be


http://www.targaflorio.info/nesti.htm


I wondered if this was my car originally but looking at this photo it looks more like a B23. The roll hoop construction has the bracing from the rear as per B23 whereas B31 is braced from the front. Shame because adding Targa to my car would have been good, but this evidence clearly says not.

There are a few other photos of Nesti on the Targa in 77 if you search for them.

Doug

[allenbrown]

Good find Doug. Definitely a B19/21/23 but with B26 front and rear bodywork. That must be the ex-Tondelli/Tecno car.

[p261brm]

Originally Posted by allenbrown

Good find Doug. Definitely a B19/21/23 but with B26 front and rear bodywork. That must be the ex-Tondelli/Tecno car.

Agree on a 19/23, Interesting, photo must have been taken at the very last National running of the race? According to records won by a Chevron driven by a Raffaele Restivo ??

[DougT]

Just to keep everything up to date.

The ex-Mike Roberts white so called "B31", which was at Maxted Page, is now advertised by Speedmaster.........

Doug

[DougT]

"Sigh",

Update many years later...

Iconic Auctions are again trying to flog the "wrong" B31 05 with Martini livery.

I had a discussion with the FIA on this and they have said that they know about the "wrong" car and it will never get an HTP.

I still have the "right" car with the original tub.

DougT