Are modern F1 drivers as good a previous generations

[FastDB2s]

Are modern F1 drivers as good as the earlier counterparts, I hear engineers telling the drivers to speed up which although they didn't have telemetry years ago, good / great drivers from earlier periods didn't need telling.

Mind, Barry Sheene in an early 80s British Bike GP, dropped out within a few laps after leading, he then took over teammate Steve Parrish's pit signals who was then leading, on the last lap he put out a pit board with 'Gas it Wan..r', Parrish fell off on the next bend - no doubt laughing his head off.

[FAS33]

the real question is, were F1 drivers of past generations even that good? or just hyped up by the generations who watched it growing up, cause I know that's what I'd be doing decades from now.

[wnut]

Modern drivers thankfully live a lot longer, operate in a much safer environment, and don't see a third of their competitors killed in any three year period!

So they are more experienced, keener to push the limits and therefore probably faster than the previous generations.

Whether they are as good in any discipline and as superior to others in all disciplines as the drivers of the late 60s were, probably not, the sports' disciplines are all much more specialized now!

[grumpyf14d]

From a group perspective, if I ask the question; has human performance increased over the last 30-60 years? I would have to say yes, due to a multitude of factors and therefore I believe today's driver is better on average.

From an individual perspective, if I ask the question; is there any one driver in the 50's through the 80's that could drive today's car and be as successful? I'd have to say it depends, however, given the same opportunities I think drivers like Fangio, Post, Senna, and a few others would have found success but not as much as they enjoyed in the past. Today's field seems to be more competitive from top to bottom than in the past.

There are a lot of great drivers of the past that would have never gotten the opportunity because of money. Drivers in the past did bring money with them however the level of money it takes to get through the ranks today is significantly higher which would have eliminated all lot of opportunity for those drivers in the past who were put in cars for talent alone.

[Aysedasi]

If you're asking if the Nuvolaris, the Fangios, the Sennas etc would have been as good now as the Vettels and the Alonsos - yes, absolutely no doubt at all.

[Nicholosophy]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

If you're asking if the Nuvolaris, the Fangios, the Sennas etc would have been as good now as the Vettels and the Alonsos - yes, absolutely no doubt at all.

Let's say that you could freeze someone and bring them back as they were in their time. So we take the older generation drivers at their prime and put them in today's cars. They would struggle. I think fitness wise it is a completely different ball game today and with the number of additional races that drivers have to do and at the high speeds/g forces it would be difficult to manage.

If we took the same drivers and had them all born on the same day, existing in the same systems with the same nutrition and fitness and experience of the time, I think they would be just as good as today's drivers.

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

The best of the modern drivers are the best of all time, in the same way that the best of the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s and 00s are among them. The 80s is over-hyped due the politics and the huge rivalries, imo, because Jim Clark, Jackie Stewart and Gilles Villeneuve to name a few are on the same level to that of Senna and Prost.

[Beryl]

Technically, and being very specific, the answer is no. I can say with great confidence that no driver on the grid today is even close to being as quick as Schumacher was (based on comparisons with Massa/Rosberg/Rubens). I don't believe there is a true monster on the grid now, at least not in the same way that Schumacher and Senna were. Maybe Vettel, but that's controversial and hard to determine (he might not even be better than Alonso or Hamilton).

As a whole though, the grid is better than ever. More professional, more kids in karting around the world, better health/nutrition, no out-of-place pay drivers.

[garcon]

There is only one thing I think we can say on this without fear of doubt. Today's Formula One drivers are, by necessity, much fitter athletes than drivers of yore. You don't even need to go very far back - James Hunt wouldn't get anywhere near an F1 car today.

[chunder]

Its an interesting point.

No doubt talent is different now. Older drivers heel and toed, changed gear manually, no power steering, hard cars to drive.

Modern cars are more aero conscious and harder to design and get to the limit of maybe.

But I am older and feel that no car was harder to drive than the mid 80's turbo cars, they had so much more to think about.

Clark era cars were not hard to drive, but the tracks certainly were very very much harder to drive on and far more dangerous, so you had to have a different skill set and guys like Clark were able to drive well within themselves and still win, a very unique skill.

I think the 30's and the silver arrows was a special era as was early 50's with big cars, narrow tyres and big power.

Fitness is a definite, but not as much fun as talent and ability, and though modern guys would win in anything still, I simply don't find it as exciting.

[wnut]

Originally Posted by garcon

There is only one thing I think we can say on this without fear of doubt. Today's Formula One drivers are, by necessity, much fitter athletes than drivers of yore. You don't even need to go very far back - James Hunt wouldn't get anywhere near an F1 car today.

James' fitness was actually a bit of folk lore.

He played very good high level league squash! He wanted to turn professional at one stage. I think the smoking was a party thing, and maybe a sponsor promotion and image tool.
He was actually very fit!

James' qualifying record against sundry team mates was also truly outstanding. 49 - 4 !

[Biscuits In A Red Bull]

Originally Posted by Beryl

As a whole though, the grid is better than ever. More professional, more kids in karting around the world, better health/nutrition, no out-of-place pay drivers.

Even Esteban Gutierrez? 2 good races he's had. Max Chilton isn't acting out-of-place, but he has been largely 0.5s off the pace of Bianchi. But I totally see your point.

[BSchneiderFan]

I think it's absolutely right to say that overall the F1 grid is better than 15, 20, 25 years ago. There aren't any drivers who are woefully under qualified, and there aren't any comedy teams being lapped many times each race. Whether that just means the troughs are lower but the peaks less high too, is another question. I think Vettel and Hamilton can be ranked alongside the greats of any other era.

[Paradise City]

The era of Nuvolari and Fangio where the era of the greats because the stakes where astronomical and to hold one's nerve in such conditions was a herculean test of character and heroism.

Being 'great' is probably impossible in this day and age so we have alot of 'very good' and 'good' drivers who are brave but who's accomplishments are not on par with previous eras.

[FastDB2s]

Originally Posted by BSchneiderFan

I think Vettel and Hamilton can be ranked alongside the greats of any other era.

I don't think Vettel or Hamilton, Alonso, etc, would be in the top ten or even 15,
As far as fitness goes, that's just dedication & previous great drivers of years ago, Fangio (who must have been really fit stamina wise although never looked it (rather chubby) as he raced at very high speeds on no more than dirt tracks in South America for days), Clark, Senna, Stewart, etc, would just dedicate the time, then demolish todays drivers as they did others in period.

Remember the races were much longer, the cars appeared to be easier to drive back then but they weren't as reliable. Although 1.5ltr GP cars appear easier the drivers needed to keep the cornering speeds very high with no aero, Clark was also brilliant in a 3ltr GP, Indy, rally car, sports cars, etc, etc, etc. as were others.

Remember that didn't have engineers bleating in their ears to go faster either.

The only way is to put Vettel, Hamilton, Alonso in the GP cars of yesteryear at the Goodwood Revival or HGP series and see what they can do on old fashioned, dangerous circuits.
Even Mass who I rated as a good driver was humbled by an amateur.

[garcon]

The drivers of Fangio's era must have had great stamina to win races that were much longer than they are today, but they didn't need anything like the physique of modern drivers. The only time they'd experience forces approaching 5g were during accidents they probably weren't going to survive.

[ensign14]

I think there is the best set of drivers at the top since about 1987, when Prost, Piquet, Senna and Mansell were at or close to their peaks. Maybe early 2000s was similar with Schumacher, Montoya and Kimi going at it, but that was spoilt by Mosley's Ferrarism.

It would have been even better had Kubica not put his wishes above the interests of his employers, fans and colleagues.

[FastDB2s]

Originally Posted by garcon

The drivers of Fangio's era must have had great stamina to win races that were much longer than they are today, but they didn't need anything like the physique of modern drivers. The only time they'd experience forces approaching 5g were during accidents they probably weren't going to survive.

The original Monza banking produced about 5g in the 1950s & 60s, in downward-ish forces, pushing you into the seat.

[garcon]

But that was a 'passive' 5g. i.e. it wasn't a sideways are forwards active 5g trying to rip you out of your seat.

[chillibowl]

Initially fitness would be a problem but no reason they couldn't be trained up to current levels though.

[Marcus666]

Knowing that F1 has power steering right now. I think, just like the removal of TC, that removal of Power steering would make it more difficult for drivers. Ask Ryan Briscoe or Rubens Barrichello about the difference in pushing your steering wheel and turning your steering wheel (Indy vs F1).

[FastDB2s]

Originally Posted by Marcus666

Knowing that F1 has power steering right now. I think, just like the removal of TC, that removal of Power steering would make it more difficult for drivers. Ask Ryan Briscoe or Rubens Barrichello about the difference in pushing your steering wheel and turning your steering wheel (Indy vs F1).

Isn't that a good thing, no one said F1 should be easy, should be done now, straight away

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by NickoGP

Let's say that you could freeze someone and bring them back as they were in their time. So we take the older generation drivers at their prime and put them in today's cars. They would struggle. I think fitness wise it is a completely different ball game today and with the number of additional races that drivers have to do and at the high speeds/g forces it would be difficult to manage.
.

For a short while, maybe.

But reverse the scenario - put your Vettels and Alonso's into the cars of Fangio and Clark - even Senna in the late 80s - and they'd struggle too......

[Moneyseeker]

I remember Schumacher doing a demo in a Villeneuve Ferrari at one of Ferrari's Racing Days events and saying he felt entirely exposed and unsafe in it and wouldn't have wanted to drive in that era!

Aside from comparing skill and physical ability we need to think of the mental issues. Even up to the late 70's (as now shown by RUSH) it was the norm to lose 2 or more drivers per year in terrible accidents where the cars, circuits and safety facilities were woefully inadequate - this necessitated a completely different mind-set from drivers, almost a kin to wartime fighter pilots where many had a completely necessary cavalier attitude to life.

This is completely different today and drivers thankfully race at higher speeds and forces in the knowledge that they are very unlikely to be injured in an F1 car at all and all have come through junior formulae with a similar level of safety.

[nicanary]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

For a short while, maybe.

But reverse the scenario - put your Vettels and Alonso's into the cars of Fangio and Clark - even Senna in the late 80s - and they'd struggle too......

I reckon there are some drivers from an earlier age who could make the transition - Jim Clark mixed-in with the other drivers to some extent, but on the whole he was not a carouser in the mould of Graham Hill. He was physically fitter, I reckon, than many of his era.

And S C Moss was very conscious of his need to keep fit - he took a very professional attitude towards his career. In his prime I reckon he could have adapted to the current G-forces. It's the one big "what if?" from my favourite era - what if he could have raced against Clark on equal terms for a couple of seasons? Epic races, I imagine.