FIA ready to cancel Indy verdict: Official now

mark_l · 13 Jul 2005, 15:43 (Ref:1354729)

The seven Michelin Formula One teams who have been found guilty of damaging the sport over the Indianapolis tyre fiasco could have their convictions overturned within a matter of days, Autosport-Atlas can exclusively reveal.

Taken from Autosport website.

Just goes to prove the charges against the 7 teams were trumped up, of no substance and purely political.

The FIA is showing itself to be a spineless organisation, who cant properly bring charges for breaching its regulations.

If the FIA do drop the groundless charges then Max Mosley must resign sooner rather than later and allow someone to be in charge who will cut out the politics and the dead wood.

Glen · 13 Jul 2005, 15:49 (Ref:1354737)

Very interesting. Totally and utterly disagree with your assumptions as to what this means though.

How can the charges be "trumped up"? The teams failed to fulfil their contractual duty to contest the race. FIA have no means to charge Michelin with anything - therefore the teams are to blame for failing to specify suitable tyres.

Kicking-back · 13 Jul 2005, 15:56 (Ref:1354743)

Peace is breaking out in F1.

Ron and Christian are in for a friendly chat with Max.

Flav says the teams are not anti-Max, and want to work with him to end the threat of a breakaway.

Max issues a letter with some concessions to the teams on technology vis a vis 2008.

I always say it, but it's looking clearer all the time - things in F1 always work themselves out in the end.

It's a golden egg and they're all too clever to see it broken.

**Adam43** · 13 Jul 2005, 16:26 (Ref:1354778)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_l

Just goes to prove the charges against the 7 teams were trumped up, of no substance and purely political.

I disagree with this too. Presumably if you think that the original verdict was wrong it is good it may change?

mark_l · 13 Jul 2005, 17:29 (Ref:1354818)

The teams were charged with failing to accept the FIA proposal of driving down the pitlane every lap. Can someone identify the regualtion in the Yellow Book that has been broken.

Silk Cut Jaguar · 13 Jul 2005, 17:33 (Ref:1354821)

Something happened in the last few weeks that the public clearly doesn't know about.

Peace doesn't break out from nowhere...

avsfan733 · 13 Jul 2005, 17:36 (Ref:1354824)

can i get a link to this as im guessing there is somethign more...like maybe a reason. They don't just decide oops we might get in trouble for this and change their minds. This almost certainly has less to do with the FIA changing their minds and much more to do with what the FIA said at the time which was they would wait to see how the teams organized an apology.

Maybe the end of season indy race might happen...?

**Adam43** · 13 Jul 2005, 17:58 (Ref:1354845)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_l

The teams were charged with failing to accept the FIA proposal of driving down the pitlane every lap. Can someone identify the regualtion in the Yellow Book that has been broken.

Without going over the reasons again, as I don't think it is purpose of the thread they weren't just charged with that. It was also for not having a suitable tyre. Then it is not racing. The yellow book, or blue book, has nothing to do with it ASAIK - it is the F1 technical and sporting rules (mainly sporting in this case) that effect the situation with a little influence of the Concorde agreement.

I'm no saying it is right or wrong this, but we have to understand the reasons why. There is nothing in any regs that say you can't drive down the pitlane each lap. As daft as doing so may be.

Quote:

Originally Posted by press release on verdict

- guilty of failing to ensure that they were in possession of suitable tyres for the 2005 US Grand Prix; but with strong, mitigating circumstances;
- guilty of wrongfully refusing to allow their cars to start the race, having regard to their right to use the pit lane on each lap;

They were also found not guilty on three other charges, but I presume it isn't these that will be overturned!

**John Turner** · 13 Jul 2005, 18:45 (Ref:1354872)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kicking-back

It's a golden egg and they're all too clever to see it broken.

I agree with view K-b, but it's a shame they couldn't remember their 'golden egg' at Indy.

Snrub · 13 Jul 2005, 18:55 (Ref:1354880)

To me this is an indication that the FIA may be trying to be reasonable. This is a surprising and good first step to accepting that the teams weren't at fault. Hopefully the FIA will accept some of the blame for what happened at Indy. Michellin may not have provided the right tires, but it was the FIA killed that the race.

mark_l · 13 Jul 2005, 18:58 (Ref:1354885)

U turns have been a hallmark of Max's leadership of the FIA.

Max announces his retirement, then changes his mind.
Max announces a set of low tech regs for 2008 for F1, then changes his mind.
Max announces and punishes the teams over Indy-Gate, then changes his mind.

Inigo Montoya · 13 Jul 2005, 19:33 (Ref:1354912)

Take it easy on Max, its not easy being the head of the FIA. You have team managers that often act like children, and I expect its difficult not to sink to their level.

R · 13 Jul 2005, 19:44 (Ref:1354919)

It's about time they cancelled it too. The teams were not to blame - they couldn't contest a proper race on those tyres, and 14 cars driving down the pitlane each lap is not safe, no matter what Max Mosley says. The teams had no choice. Losing the points at Indy is punishment enough, now leave the matter alone.

**Adam43** · 13 Jul 2005, 22:38 (Ref:1355050)

Quote:

Originally Posted by mark_l

U turns have been a hallmark of Max's leadership of the FIA.

Max announces his retirement, then changes his mind.
Max announces a set of low tech regs for 2008 for F1, then changes his mind.
Max announces and punishes the teams over Indy-Gate, then changes his mind.

Max retires, people complain, he changes his mind.
Max announces low-tech formula, people complain, he changes his mind.
Max punishes teams, people complain, (same?) people complain whne he changes his mind. Not that this last case actually happen strictly like this as it involves the world council. Still no-one considers the role of he world conucil.

I'm not saying if he is right or wrong at any stage of these U-turns. However I do feel I can say a trite saying - he is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't!

Are we looking for what is the best for F1 here, or just looking to be anti-Max?

JeremySmith · 14 Jul 2005, 01:18 (Ref:1355124)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snrub

To me this is an indication that the FIA may be trying to be reasonable. This is a surprising and good first step to accepting that the teams weren't at fault. Hopefully the FIA will accept some of the blame for what happened at Indy. Michellin may not have provided the right tires, but it was the FIA killed that the race.

Snrub.. What killed the USGP was that Michelin did not bring a *safe* tyre, now do you or anyone else really wish to see drivers racing on unsafe tyres? I don't and it should have been cancelled..

Goodbye · 14 Jul 2005, 01:28 (Ref:1355131)

Quote:

Originally Posted by R

It's about time they cancelled it too. The teams were not to blame - they couldn't contest a proper race on those tyres, and 14 cars driving down the pitlane each lap is not safe, no matter what Max Mosley says. The teams had no choice. Losing the points at Indy is punishment enough, now leave the matter alone.

how can we leave the matter alone when 120,000 fans got bent over?
are u seriously forgetting who makes f1 F-One?
the teams must be punished...no matter what.

JeremySmith · 14 Jul 2005, 01:35 (Ref:1355133)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snrub

To me this is an indication that the FIA may be trying to be reasonable. This is a surprising and good first step to accepting that the teams weren't at fault. Hopefully the FIA will accept some of the blame for what happened at Indy. Michellin may not have provided the right tires, but it was the FIA killed that the race.

Snrub.. What killed the USGP was that Michelin did not bring a *safe* tyre, now do you or anyone else really wish to see drivers racing on unsafe tyres? I don't and it should have been cancelled really don't you think?

macdaddy · 14 Jul 2005, 01:52 (Ref:1355136)

Quote:

According to Autosport-Atlas, the governing body would be ready to lift the “guilty” verdict...

However, Dennis and Horner are to present Mosley some fresh new evidence which will show the squads had no option but to withdraw from the USGP. FIA sources are indicating an emergency meeting of the entity’s Senate will be called for tomorrow to analyze the new data.

After the teams were found guilty of two charges by the WMSC - lacking possession of suitable tires and wrongfully refusing to start a race - the FIA set September 14 as the date for the penalties to be unveiled. The squads promptly appealed, and the final verdict was scheduled for September 28.

This article, dated July 13, is from SpeedTV.

Dixie Flatline · 14 Jul 2005, 02:17 (Ref:1355142)

I'm surprised that the FIA would be willing to do this because, IMO, it calls into question the independence of the judicial process.

I suspect that the FIA and the Michelin teams would try to characterise it as a settlement, much like two civil litigants agree to settle their dispute without necessarily involving a Court.

However, it seems to me that charging the teams with breaches of the Sporting Code and the Regulations cannot be solved merely by the teams and the FIA settling the matter. Either the teams breached the Code and the Regulations or they didn't. If they did, then they should be punished in accordance with the Code and the Regulations, and the teams have the opportunity to appeal the decision, which I understand it, is what they were doing.

Something about this strikes me as odd and as setting a precedent that might come back to haunt the FIA and the constructors down the track.

maximus · 14 Jul 2005, 09:14 (Ref:1355255)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goodbye

how can we leave the matter alone when 120,000 fans got bent over?
are u seriously forgetting who makes f1 F-One?
the teams must be punished...no matter what.

I'd love to see your reaction if a driver got killed or seriously injured. The teams couldn't race, simple as! Since then Michelin and the teams have gone some way to try and rectify the situation and refund the fans.

I can't serously believe you think the teams were the only ones to blame.

mark_l · 14 Jul 2005, 09:28 (Ref:1355260)

Well as one old PM said "the lady is not for turning"

Meanwhile Max is doing donuts!!

What other U turns are we going to get from Max this year?

Inigo Montoya · 14 Jul 2005, 14:31 (Ref:1355443)

http://www.fia.com/mediacentre/Press...140705-01.html

Its official. The decision has been reversed

Mekola · 14 Jul 2005, 14:55 (Ref:1355457)

I don't understand why several people wants more punishment for Michelin teams after the Indy fiasco, specifically those that didn't pay to go to the circuit. These teams have punished themselves enough when they did forfait in that race and gave the victory to Ferrari in a silver plate. At least, they did a indirect favour to Ferrari, Jordan and Minardi (sorry PS, but that's true).
If FIA had decided for points stripping punishment for 'rebel' teams, it would give the title to Ferrari and I think that, with their performance, the Scuder�*a von Trips doesn't deserve a title that they struggled more than expected to fight for. That would be a worse farce than Indy's, though.

Kicking-back · 14 Jul 2005, 14:56 (Ref:1355458)

Sensible move all round, that.

Down F0rce · 14 Jul 2005, 14:56 (Ref:1355459)

Excellent. Finger pointing won't get anyone anywhere.

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