B*gger! - serious marshalling point

PaulPerkins · 10 Jul 2002, 06:57 (Ref:330759)

Hi All,

Just had a rather nasty surprise from the regional grading officer.

I re-read the grading manual and it appears that to be upgraded all signatures must be from an eXamining Observer. I assumed that because non-X Observers had happily signed my cards this was a thing of the past.

I am told that under no circumstances must a non-X Obs sign your upgrading cards; so new marshals bear this in mind.

So it appears that this year's efforts - at least in upgrading terms - have come to nothing.

Not pleased.

Still, it's all been good experience...

Paul.

Dave Brand · 10 Jul 2002, 07:43 (Ref:330785)

I find that surprising - my experience has been that non-X observers have always made it clear that they will sign attendance cards but that they can't sign for upgrades.

Ah well, looks like you're gonna be stuck with that white badge for a while.......

EvilPumpkin · 10 Jul 2002, 08:00 (Ref:330797)

Hmmmm correct me if I'm wrong but aren't XOs a bit thin on the ground these days?

I can understand why this rule is in place and it does make sense - but surely it is up to the marshals club to ensure that there are sufficient examiners available? And if not, what is the grading marshal's recourse?

PaulPerkins · 10 Jul 2002, 08:08 (Ref:330809)

There is none!

There's a bit of a catch-22 situation here - because there are so few marshals, you have to be early at sign-on to make sure you get a busy post, but then it's pot-luck as to who your Obs will be.

Conversely, if you wait to find out where Obs are posted you probably won't get to be assigned to that point because you'll be needed elsewhere - probably a post where nothing happens for which you won't get a sig anyway...

Flagman · 10 Jul 2002, 09:35 (Ref:330874)

Does it matter that much - its not a race to get signatures - the more experience you get the better.

Some of the problems I have found with trainee flag marshals having difficulties can be attributed to the fact that they have come up through the other grades too quick (or missed out the fire grade) and as a result haven't got enough experience of racing.

PaulPerkins · 10 Jul 2002, 09:48 (Ref:330885)

Totally agree, Flaggie. One of the reasons I enjoy marshalling is because it's non-competitive (unlike my day job).

The reason I'm so keen to get on the first rung is because I'm planning on going abroad for some time, and a BMMC grading should stand me in good stead for joining other marshalling clubs.

Once I'm at green I'm happy to stay there for ever!

KayBee · 10 Jul 2002, 12:11 (Ref:331026)

I'm puzzled about your predicament Paul! I know that when I have offered a card for Upgrade I have always been told the Observer's status - that is whether they are Examining Observers or not.:confused:

This has happened at all the circuits I have marshalled cars at.

PaulPerkins · 10 Jul 2002, 12:23 (Ref:331040)

I've a very grave feeling that I have made a ninny

of myself then...

My understanding is that an Observer's status is indicated by their membership number. '12345' is a non-X and '1234X' is an X.

Most of my sigs are non-X membership numbers.

Should I go away and crawl into a hole for a few weeks? :confused: (and don't say I should do that anyway

) Or is it that the obs signing my card have simply omitted the 'X'?

Dave Brand · 10 Jul 2002, 12:51 (Ref:331062)

Quote:

Originally posted by PaulPerkins
I've a very grave feeling that I have made a ninny of myself then...

Ninny may not be the word I'd use, but.........

Take another look at your BMMC 'Training & Grading Scheme' booklet, page 14; the X appears on an XO's badge after the name, not the number! I don't know if an X is added to an observer's membership number on upgrading to XO - I suspect not.

Just to put your mind at rest, I 've looked at the copy I kept of my upgrade card from last year. None of the observers put an X after his membership number.

Quote:

Should I go away and crawl into a hole for a few weeks?

We can find a good big hole for you on Saturday!

PaulPerkins · 10 Jul 2002, 12:55 (Ref:331065)

Well, I think it's a case of....

What a plonker

Dave Brand · 10 Jul 2002, 13:01 (Ref:331072)

Quote:

Originally posted by PaulPerkins
Well, I think it's a case of....

What a plonker

Flagman · 10 Jul 2002, 14:00 (Ref:331100)

You must have been really unlucky in your post allocation at Oulton as it is probably the easiest circuit to get signatures - given the number of BMMC X-grade observers who regularly attend it is probably easier to end up on a post with an X-grade than it is to get a non X.

One question - has the regional grading officer just gone on the numbers on the card and not checked their grade? Might be worth checking (some of the observers may have just ommitted the X!)

PaulPerkins · 10 Jul 2002, 14:03 (Ref:331104)

Hi Flagman,

No not yet. I sent him an email to confirm that all sigs must be from an X, as I should be ready to upgrade over the next couple of weeks, and noticed that only a couple of my sigs had 'X' postfixes which got me a-thinking (dangerous thing to do as we've all just found out).

I guess I may well send him the list just to be sure - that way I don't get another nasty surprise...

I think that you're right - the Obs have just omitted the 'X', or at least, I hope so!

Flagman · 10 Jul 2002, 14:05 (Ref:331106)

If you have the names handy send me a list - I ought to know who's an X by now!

KayBee · 10 Jul 2002, 15:59 (Ref:331171)

Paul, have a look at the Observers part of the list for Saturday and count them 1-20.

The following applies:
18-20 not applicable
9, 11, 12 and 15 Observer only
5 and 7 not sure of Observer status

The rest are definitely Examining Observers.

Hope this helps you!

PaulPerkins · 10 Jul 2002, 18:30 (Ref:331257)

Thanks KayBee,

Just done a cross-check and I'm off to the local tatoo parlour.

Now, should 'ninny' have a capital 'N' or not?

Peter Scillitoe · 10 Jul 2002, 21:08 (Ref:331394)

Speaking as one of the first MSA registered Ex Obs in the UK, I would just like to confirm that MSA Ex Obs cards do not have the letter 'X' before or after the registration number. A recent change of heart on behalf of the BMMC means that MSA graded Ex Obs who are not BMMC members can now sign BMMC upgrade cards.

Don't now whether this helps or confuses the situation. But, what the hell......................

EvilPumpkin · 11 Jul 2002, 07:47 (Ref:331569)

ooohhhh one of the first eh!? So you're like X007?

We already know you get the babes - we've seen the photos. Do you also get a gun? And a secret camera? And an Aston Martin with an ejector seat?

pinki · 11 Jul 2002, 11:54 (Ref:331730)

Quote:

Originally posted by EvilPumpkin
ooohhhh one of the first eh!? So you're like X007?

We already know you get the babes - we've seen the photos. Do you also get a gun? And a secret camera? And an Aston Martin with an ejector seat?

Well he's got a Volvo that he doesn't drive fast enough

Dave Brand · 14 Jul 2002, 22:08 (Ref:333879)

I've just been sorting my stuff out from the weekend & I've notice something unusual. Take a look at your upgrading card - look what the XO put after his MSA number! Maybe Tony's asked the XOs to do this to avoid confusing ninnies!

Great day at Anglesey today. Only three races, but one was a 95-lapper, another 45 minutes, with grids of 20-ish, a ten-second or so spread in lap times on a one-mile circuit. Kaybee's suffering from RSI with all the blue flagging. I had the pleasure of working with the best incident team I've ever come across. No arguments, everybody doing his share of the work, even the food & drink were shared among the team. The incident team on post 2 was.......er......me!

KayBee · 14 Jul 2002, 22:44 (Ref:333896)

Quote:

Originally posted by Dave Brand
Great day at Anglesey today. Only three races, but one was a 95-lapper, another 45 minutes, with grids of 20-ish, a ten-second or so spread in lap times on a one-mile circuit. Kaybee's suffering from RSI with all the blue flagging. I had the pleasure of working with the best incident team I've ever come across. No arguments, everybody doing his share of the work, even the food & drink were shared among the team. The incident team on post 2 was.......er......me!

Yet again I've been doing all the work!! All the spun and continued (very common at Anglesey) were on the inside, Dave was on the outside, and I was in the better position to attend.

This followed on from Saturday where the Flagpoint was nearest to an incident and I attended it.

EvilPumpkin · 15 Jul 2002, 07:45 (Ref:334037)

KB - you left the flagpost to attend an incident?

Dave Brand · 15 Jul 2002, 08:46 (Ref:334093)

Quote:

Originally posted by KayBee

Yet again I've been doing all the work!! All the spun and continued (very common at Anglesey) were on the inside, Dave was on the outside, and I was in the better position to attend.

.....and the drivers were playing 'take the

out of the fat flaggie'.....spin, fiddle about trying to start the engine or select a gear, then when she's almost there, drive off!

Dave Brand · 15 Jul 2002, 08:55 (Ref:334100)

Quote:

Originally posted by EvilPumpkin
KB - you left the flagpost to attend an incident?

Yes.....and she still got a signature!

Sunday was a different story.......three of us, two flaggies & me on a post where in an ideal world you's want at least an observer, two flaggies & four incident. Scary!

KayBee · 15 Jul 2002, 09:45 (Ref:334130)

Quote:

Originally posted by EvilPumpkin
KB - you left the flagpost to attend an incident?

EP Yes! There were two of us on post and I went the suggestion of and with the full agreement of the Yellow Flag man who was waving the yellow flag at the time. I was on Green/blue the incident occurred at the start of the race coming into the first corner.

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