COTF reliability

[Mixer]

So COTF has been tested by various teams and there's more testing to be done. Lots of common components so perhaps we won't see the kind of issues we saw in '93 but I am sure we're going to see teething troubles from one or the other.

Is there an argument that potentially Ford & Holden could be in a better position reliability wise because of the carryover engines, in comparison to AMG and Nissan?

Clearly there's been a lot of work around cooling of the transaxle, I'm wondering whether we will see more of these issues when the cars are running in packs without clear air, and in the heat. Adelaide will be an interesting hit out, will we see engine or gearbox problems, suspension or driveline failures due to the kerbs?

Thoughts?

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Mixer

So COTF has been tested by various teams and there's more testing to be done. Lots of common components so perhaps we won't see the kind of issues we saw in '93 but I am sure we're going to see teething troubles from one or the other.

Are the common components made by official suppliers or are the teams free to build them on their own, as long as they're to the spec the championship has set? Just wondering, as the BTCC introduced a lot of common components for 2012, made by official suppliers and they were quite frankly, rubbish. The organisers put the deals out to tender and they got some of the cheapest companies on the market to do the jobs, especially on the fabrication work.

Hopefully the V8s will have better quality control than that!

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Hopefully the V8s will have better quality control than that!

I remember a lot of problems when the control brake package came in, but the control wheels have been really good. I'm just wondering if there's going to be specific weaknesses that will have to be fixed, surely real racing is going to be much harder on the cars than any testing you can do. Look at what happened to the V8ST over in NZ.

[peckstar]

One would imagine the nissan and AMG motors will have some teething issues.

But i would reckon maybe only the driveline is an issue for the rest of the teams. the cars have had many hours of testing (over a year now)

But the sequential box has already shown it has issues, Imagine if Clipsal is hot (although i hope it is as i will be there)

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by Mixer

I remember a lot of problems when the control brake package came in, but the control wheels have been really good. I'm just wondering if there's going to be specific weaknesses that will have to be fixed, surely real racing is going to be much harder on the cars than any testing you can do. Look at what happened to the V8ST over in NZ.

Well that's it. There's no substitute for proper competition. It's like those big teams who do 24 hour tests in prep for Le Mans. Just because the car ran flawlessly there, doesn't mean it won't break in the heat of the actual race, with all the other factors like contact and conditions to consider.

It'll be interesting to see if the components are up to the job, especially as the Clipsal can be a bit frantic.

[Mixer]

Originally Posted by Craner Curves

Well that's it. There's no substitute for proper competition. It's like those big teams who do 24 hour tests in prep for Le Mans. Just because the car ran flawlessly there, doesn't mean it won't break in the heat of the actual race, with all the other factors like contact and conditions to consider. It'll be interesting to see if the components are up to the job, especially as the Clipsal can be a bit frantic.

Is it fair to say that QR, PI and Winton are all much kinder to the machinery than Adelaide or any of the other street tracks will be? Kerbs, wall brushes, even the bumps will show the weaknesses.

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by Mixer

Is it fair to say that QR, PI and Winton are all much kinder to the machinery than Adelaide or any of the other street tracks will be? Kerbs, wall brushes, even the bumps will show the weaknesses.

Even if the cars come thru Clipsal unscathed, the operating life of various bits and pieces on the cars will be the unknown factor.

Suspension, gearbox, brakes, engines, wheels, tyres, bodywork... the teams can estimate when stuff needs to be replaced, but they wont know til they have done it

Of interest is some chat about the new chassis being harder to service after a wreck. So for example, if a car does a 'wallbanger' in turn 8 on Saturday, they may not be able to fix it for Sunday, even if all the bits, and all the technogumbies were in the house...

Simple answer.. dont hit kerbs, walls, other cars

C'mon Clipsal!!

[sizzle]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Even if the cars come thru Clipsal unscathed, the operating life of various bits and pieces on the cars will be the unknown factor.

Suspension, gearbox, brakes, engines, wheels, tyres, bodywork... the teams can estimate when stuff needs to be replaced, but they wont know til they have done it

Of interest is some chat about the new chassis being harder to service after a wreck. So for example, if a car does a 'wallbanger' in turn 8 on Saturday, they may not be able to fix it for Sunday, even if all the bits, and all the technogumbies were in the house...

Simple answer.. dont hit kerbs, walls, other cars

C'mon Clipsal!!

But Messes Skaife and Cochrane assured everyone that these things were going to be simpler, easier and cheaper to fix GTR. They were also going to be cheaper to build, that at the moment appears to be out the window.

[TWRv12]

Originally Posted by sizzle

But Messes Skaife and Cochrane assured everyone that these things were going to be simpler, easier and cheaper to fix GTR. They were also going to be cheaper to build, that at the moment appears to be out the window.

That's what Mr Gow said too...........

[Umai Naa]

No doubt there was some method in Triple Eight's madness in allowing Mr Whincup to give it a hard time in the demonstration laps in Sydney.

[Craner Curves]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Of interest is some chat about the new chassis being harder to service after a wreck. So for example, if a car does a 'wallbanger' in turn 8 on Saturday, they may not be able to fix it for Sunday, even if all the bits, and all the technogumbies were in the house...

I did wonder that when I saw a video about the construction of these cars. Not quite as simple as tieing a rope to one end and the other to a large object and pulling dents out!

[GTRMagic]

Whispers from the powder room suggest... that one of the major control components which changed supplier for the CotF project may be having some troubles in achieving its design performance.

No.. its not the Albins gearbox this time...

.. but the AP Racing control brake rotors!

The story goes that the Erebus squad had a component failure during their 20 lap shakedown of Mercedes chassis #2 last week. The team and the media seemed quite coy in identifying the item causing the team an issue...

... and it has been suggested that a disc rotor, one of the new control components, designed to fit within the 18" wheel, and the new AP Racing calipers, failed in that short space of time.

Noise around the traps suggested that 888 had a similar failure during their test day as well.. while another squad running 4 cars in blue oval colours are said to have had issues with the product.

Other teams have only now had access to this control product, instead testing with other brands until this one was made available to all.

AP Racing locally, and at world HQ are investigating the reported problems... and presumably a solution is on its way...

Scary stuff though.. brand new cars, brand new everything, and something as fundamental and relatively simple as a brake disc rotor failing inside 20 laps sounds very very scary...

Of course it will be all right on the night.. but something else to watch at Clipsal you might think..

Presuming any of this actually happened

[NZSTfan]

Does anyone know the nature of the failure?

i.e. did they warp or crack?

I assume the former would have happened and this would have translated horribly thru the steering wheel?

Maybe a change in metal type/metallurgy is called for.

Or do they go to ceramics....eeeek?

[GTRMagic]

The story goes that the Erebus brake rotor exploded... while the 888 one was not much different...

Presuming any of this actually happened

[NZSTfan]

Crikey! metallurgy issue it is then.

I hope an exploding disc would not have damaged any other components, but one would have thought it would have.

Buggar

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by NZSTfan

Crikey! metallurgy issue it is then.

I hope an exploding disc would not have damaged any other components, but one would have thought it would have.

Buggar

Back in the control Alcon rotor days, Mr Perkins had a number of rotors cut open and had tests done to determine their metal composition. His research apparently found a difference in the ratio of metals used in the construction of the rotors, contributing to performance variations set to set!

It is said that the V8SA mob have warned teams to be extra vigilant in the use of these control rotors until AP come back with an explanation and possible solution.

Wonder if it might affect Saturday's testing?

Presuming any of this actually happened

[NZSTfan]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Back in the control Alcon rotor days, Mr Perkins had a number of rotors cut open and had tests done to determine their metal composition. His research apparently found a difference in the ratio of metals used in the construction of the rotors, contributing to performance variations set to set!

It is said that the V8SA mob have warned teams to be extra vigilant in the use of these control rotors until AP come back with an explanation and possible solution.

Wonder if it might affect Saturday's testing?

Presuming any of this actually happened

My father is a metallurgist and he has always told me that the consistency of metals (and the component ingredients) in this part of the world are dicey to say the least. That possibly explains your comments in the first paragraph.

I experienced this when i needed to source a spring for a civil engineering application. We needed linear torque for accuracy in the device (they were 'clock' type concentric springs). We used manufacturers from Aus and NZ and found zero consistency between springs, rather than between batches (which is something that can at least direct you to where the problem is).

In the end we sourced the component from the UK, and had no problems at all.

Accordingly it is down to the purity of product smelted, which can vary dramatically, especially if made from recycled steel, which a lot of things, believe it or not, are made from.

Chuck me a failed disc GTR and i'll get the old man to give it the once over

[Umai Naa]

indeed.

[Mixer]

Damn you would want to get it sorted can you imagine an exploding rotor into turn 9 at Clipsal?

[GTRMagic]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

Whispers from the powder room suggest... that one of the major control components which changed supplier for the CotF project may be having some troubles in achieving its design performance.

No.. its not the Albins gearbox this time...

.. but the AP Racing control brake rotors!

The story goes that the Erebus squad had a component failure during their 20 lap shakedown of Mercedes chassis #2 last week. The team and the media seemed quite coy in identifying the item causing the team an issue...

... and it has been suggested that a disc rotor, one of the new control components, designed to fit within the 18" wheel, and the new AP Racing calipers, failed in that short space of time.

Noise around the traps suggested that 888 had a similar failure during their test day as well.. while another squad running 4 cars in blue oval colours are said to have had issues with the product.

Other teams have only now had access to this control product, instead testing with other brands until this one was made available to all.

AP Racing locally, and at world HQ are investigating the reported problems... and presumably a solution is on its way...

Scary stuff though.. brand new cars, brand new everything, and something as fundamental and relatively simple as a brake disc rotor failing inside 20 laps sounds very very scary...

Of course it will be all right on the night.. but something else to watch at Clipsal you might think..

Presuming any of this actually happened

V8 Supercars Monitoring Brake Problems

Should we charge a fee?

[NZSTfan]

Originally Posted by GTRMagic

V8 Supercars Monitoring Brake Problems

Should we charge a fee?

Absolutely

[Samwhk]

Apparently #15 has popped an engine along the main straight....

[TWRv12]

Anyone remember the first GP2 meeting, loads of brake problems. Manufacturer who lost the bid to supply parked a truck outside the circuit because they knew the selected product was failing. Eventually the teams dumped the original brake discs and called in the supplier waiting outside the circuit

Hoping for better reliability after the disappointment of race one, the organisers had taken the surprising step of switching brake manufacturers. The Carbone Lorraine items were squarely blamed by several teams for problems leading either to retirement or cars dropping down the order, and the series decided to take advantage of an available supply of Brembo replacements.

http://www.crash.net/gp2/race+report...r_carroll.html

[Crash Test]

Originally Posted by Samwhk

Apparently #15 has popped an engine along the main straight....

Twas a mere oil line that came loose. Nothing to get excited about.

[Samwhk]

Originally Posted by Crash Test

Twas a mere oil line that came loose. Nothing to get excited about.

Yeah, read that in one of the write ups afterwards, I picked it up just after it happened on another forum.

Apart from that, did anyone hear anything else reliability related from Saturday? Or any update on the brakes?

By the by, I think those Mercs sound horny, and well done to the Kellys for what seems to be competitive pace out of the box.