CART car count

rush1 · 25 Jul 2002, 13:53 (Ref:342452)

Will CART race in 2003? If andretti takes 2 or 3 drivers off the grid there will be around 16 cars yes? If Toyota convinces Ganassi to leave than down to 14. If Fernandez or anyone else defects than how many cars? Does anyone know the minimum car count promoters require before a contract is voided? Where are all these teams Pook said are clamoring to join CART?

Penskes defection to the IRL was TG's victory at Getteysburg in the open wheel civil war. CART is fighting a battle already lost.

Jay · 25 Jul 2002, 14:07 (Ref:342464)

Getteysburg?

Anyway, you're assuming an absolute worst case scenario which seems very unlikely at the moment. Although I think Andretti's days are numbered in any series he races in, from what he has said so far he wishes to remain in Cart. It is just a matter of the sponsors agreeing with him. Same with the Greens, Tracy, Franchitti and everyone else involved in that.

It's Cart's own fault that it is having to claw its way back now. They have and always have had the lion's share of the fans, TV audience, and even sponsorhip revenue. The rest of this year will be rough, and next year will be a year of growth. I have no doubt that with this growth new sponsors, manufacturers and teams will be attracted to Cart - there's certainly no shortage of F1-caliber drivers that want in.

BootsOntheSide · 25 Jul 2002, 16:11 (Ref:342541)

I believe Chris Pook when he talks of lots of new teams being keen to join, seeing the quality of the racing combined with his low cost package. I think 2003 will be a very good time for teams and drivers to enter CART,a dn it may prove that the established teams who join IRL find themselves in the defeated series.

CART still has the much higher overall talent level than IRL, even with smaller grids, and next season, even if (worst case) Tracy, Franchitti, Andretti, Fernandez, Brack and Junquiera switch over, and Da Matta goes to F1, it is not a foregone conclusion that the IRL grid will have mroe talent, not if guys like Davidson, Justin Wilson and Tomas Scheckter get drives

Liz · 25 Jul 2002, 16:28 (Ref:342556)

Ditto. I think it's too soon to be piling dirt in Champ Cars' grave, and the fact that one Andretti wishes to pursue his own Holy Grail (as his father is pursuing the last race he has not won: Le Mans) should not be evidence that the world has come to an end.

I will wait and see in 2003.

Jordi · 25 Jul 2002, 16:39 (Ref:342571)

Quote:

Originally posted by rush1

CART is fighting a battle already lost.

And why do you come to a CART board to tell this?

CART is not dead. It will not die.

Jay · 25 Jul 2002, 17:33 (Ref:342620)

This forum is certainly much more alive than the other 'Indy Type Racing' forum....

macdaddy · 25 Jul 2002, 18:00 (Ref:342637)

Fernandez isn't going anywhere. Nakano, maybe. He's Honda's boy. Adrian has merely stated the possiblity of running both series, much like Ganassi and Nunn are doing.

Tracy? Let's hope he stays in CART, either with Andretti or Forsythe. One thing's for sure, he won't be in the IRL.

paul-collins · 25 Jul 2002, 18:41 (Ref:342673)

It's really hard to understand how the gap between fans and sponsors occurred - ABC, Marlboro etc. wanting the 500 and IRL while the fan base seems to support CART. Is a once-a-year exposure worth that much?

rush1 · 25 Jul 2002, 19:01 (Ref:342694)

CART stock (MPH) has lost over half its value since late May. Now that Toyota and Honda are leaving CART is in a similar situation the IRL had in 1996. Lack of engine manufactures, recognizable drivers and a dwindling pool of sponsors. Like the IRL in 1996 they will be forced to run spec engines if the series survives after 2002. The major differance between CART now and the IRL in 1996 is that CART does not have the Indianapolis 500.

Maybe Mr. Pook should give more specifics as to the teams and sponsors lining up to join CART in 2003. Time is marching on and race teams are not created overnight.

The party is over. Bye bye CART

Jay · 25 Jul 2002, 19:30 (Ref:342728)

Maybe you should stick to posting to the Nascar forum... I think there's an IRL forum here too, although I'm not sure.

The stock lost over half its value...that's actually not too bad when you look at the markets.

And yes, I'm glad Cart doesn't have the Indy 500 too... Better to have successful events year round, and not just once a year.

It's also interesting, I haven't heard of Castro-Neves, or De Ferran at all since they left to the other league. Media wise, it's as if they stopped racing. I wonder, does anyone care about them anymore?

BootsOntheSide · 25 Jul 2002, 19:54 (Ref:342762)

"This forum is certainly much more alive than the other 'Indy Type Racing' forum...."

Correct. Which proves the point that the FANS care about CART. When they've got the steering wheels rather than the balance sheets in front of them, so do the drivers. Mikey Andretti has been saying so too- his heart, as a racing driver, says CART- better drivers, better, more varied and BETTER ATTENDED and more watched races.

I emphasise attendance and viewing figures because they are still higher for CART than the IRL, especially worldwide but by a long way in the US too. The Indy 500 is only three weeks a year. No business thrives on just that exposure and token sales the rest of the year. Why do you think Christmas pudding manufactures also make fruit cake and Angel cake?

De Ferran and Castro Neves would jump at the chance to escape the Inbred Racing League (big up to whoever thought of that one!), which they are currently dominating (a spec series is supposed to be equal, yet only Sam Hornish Jr is even close to them).

Let's face it, Tony George is the evil here, trying to destroy one of the most popular racing series in the world for the sake of his own personal power lust. We must not stand for it.

SAVE US OPEN WHEEL RACING!

Jordi · 25 Jul 2002, 23:11 (Ref:342940)

Quote:

Originally posted by rush1
CART stock (MPH) has lost over half its value since late May. Now that Toyota and Honda are leaving CART is in a similar situation the IRL had in 1996. Lack of engine manufactures, recognizable drivers and a dwindling pool of sponsors. Like the IRL in 1996 they will be forced to run spec engines if the series survives after 2002. The major differance between CART now and the IRL in 1996 is that CART does not have the Indianapolis 500.

Maybe Mr. Pook should give more specifics as to the teams and sponsors lining up to join CART in 2003. Time is marching on and race teams are not created overnight.

The party is over. Bye bye CART

Do I have to tell you that twice?

Flatspot · 26 Jul 2002, 00:10 (Ref:342997)

"The major differance between CART now and the IRL in 1996 is that CART does not have the Indianapolis 500."

Sombody's smokin' crack! CART has road courses, street courses, right turns, and a whole lot more talent behind their steering wheels. The IRL didn't have that in 1996 and they certainly don't now. I would also have to disagree with any insinuation that the Indy 500 now vs. the Indy 500 of 1996 is the same race.

Give me a break!

rush1 · 26 Jul 2002, 02:31 (Ref:343072)

Sorry, CART is gone. No one cares about the diversity of race circuits except real open wheel fans - surely not the general public and not Phillip Morris (Marlboro) or Brown and Williamson (Cool).
I actually like CART but it is over. The sponsors are leaving and Toyota and Honda have already left. For good or worse Tony won. Open wheel fans can only hope CART dies quickly and a unified open wheel series can now take on NASCAR for the hearts and minds of the American public.

Unless someone on this board can name a new sponsor or team hooking up with CART in 2003. I don't think there are any to date.

Federal law requires senior officers of publicly traded companies to file statements with the SEC when trading large blocks of shares. Ganassi, Green, Hass and the rest have dumped their shares of CART in the last six months. Look it up. I would give you a link but I pay a web site for this info ( I am a day trader). But it is public information and accessible to the public for free. If you get on the SEC web page you can find links to access this information.

The car owners have left the building. Good luck finding some suckers to replace them.

mac · 26 Jul 2002, 02:45 (Ref:343080)

Quote:

Originally posted by rush1
Unless someone on this board can name a new sponsor or team hooking up with CART in 2003. I don't think there are any to date.

I can name one this year - Shell having naming rights of the Denver GP.

Flatspot · 26 Jul 2002, 03:48 (Ref:343102)

That's pretty old news for a day trader and you pay for that? I get realtime for free and I'm not sharing! Sorry, that's beside the point.

No question its a long road to hoe for CART but to say "Tony has won"... Won what? To date neither side of this issue has done anything but lost. In your language what you say is the equivelent of "My WorldCom sucks less than your Enron so I won." Brilliant! Got any stock tips? I wanna go short.

StuiE · 26 Jul 2002, 07:00 (Ref:343156)

Here is how I see next season, (if there is no limit to the number of cars)

2 for Fernadez
3 for Forsythe (keep it for more than one year this time Gerry!)
3 for Newman Haas Andretti
2 for Herdez
3 for Ganassi
2 for Green
1 for Walker (maybe 2 - depending on whether Tora stays)
1 for Patrick
1 for Mo Nunn
3 for Rahal - Maybe...
1 for Cherry (former Sigma guru)
1 for Sigma
1 for Mo Gugelmin (formerly PWR)
2 for Menards

More teams please! CART's doing fine

f1manoz · 26 Jul 2002, 08:34 (Ref:343197)

Listen, if all you're going to do is come on here and sprout the same cr@p that certain other members like to, do us all a favour and do it in the extremely quiet IRL forum please.

We don't have to put up with this constant negativity.

Liz · 26 Jul 2002, 10:40 (Ref:343261)

Ditto from me. We don't need people to come in here and

in our Cheerios. Go play with your friends over in the Invisible Racing League. That's all they hae to talk about over there.

Champ Cars is doing better than your lot hope and it will be fine. Can't wait for Montreal! Three of us Ten-Tenths people have media credentials and you will get LOTS of news from this wonderful new venue.

By the way, why is it that nobody in the Other Group ever seems to get any credentials or have anything to write about their outfit (with the exception of our faithful IRL correspondent in the newsletter, Brad Mashburn)?

Jay · 26 Jul 2002, 13:32 (Ref:343391)

You mean they have media at the IRL? :confused:

f1manoz · 26 Jul 2002, 13:42 (Ref:343400)

Excuse me sir, but what exactly is the IRL? I've never heard of it???

Jay · 26 Jul 2002, 16:13 (Ref:343492)

I'm not sure. But, apparently they have a bunch of guys and gals drive in circles 500 times in the middle of nowhere, once a year and they expect the whole world to come to a hault because of it. Imagine that!

paul-collins · 26 Jul 2002, 16:21 (Ref:343493)

Nah, it's only 200 times. (Or 202 if your name starts with J and ends in "acques Villeneuve").

Jay · 26 Jul 2002, 17:00 (Ref:343510)

Really? Well what do you know...

SevenGrain · 27 Jul 2002, 01:41 (Ref:343763)

I really hate to involve myself in any kind of 'CART is dead' debate because most of the naysayers are so convinced that they are right that talking to them is pointless. They just babble the same nonsence over and over sounding like a broken record.

There is nothing here that causes me to change my opinion, but our day-trading friend seems a bit more uniformed than the rest. He asks us to name a new team or sponsor hooking up with CART in 2003.

O.K. here's a few.

Ford will be bringing Mazda and Volvo into the series badging the Cosworth engines and offering marketing support.

There is an Italian F3000 team (Coloni?) that has submitted a letter of intent with CART.

Gigante and Office Depot are new to CART and Gigante will likely expand their support to a second Gigante car in 2003.

At least four current teams (N.H., Rahal, Forsythe, and Herdez) are discussing adding a car to their stable.)

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