Mini & Beetle

[Diabando]

This is something I have been thinking about lately, sort of swirling it around in my mind..and decided it was time to get some other opinions on the subject.

The VW Beetle and the Mini...

Both of these cars, years and years ago when they were first designed, were specifically made and produced for the people who could not afford a brand new car, for mums or families as a second car...they were designed to be affordable. They were the heros of the sixties. To this day, they still hold a special place in the hearts of many. Those models, still are, and always will be, legends.

So now the manufacturers bring out the new beetle and the new mini...with price tags higher than most luxury cars!!

To me, its just not right... I know I am being sentimental and probably expecting too much considering the economic climate...but still...its just not right!!!

How do you all feel about it??

[elephino]

To all those that have bought the new Beetle - you've been duped. All you've done is bought a Golf with less space, worse aerodynamics and no boot.

I don't understand how anyone could buy one.

The new mini is a slightly (but only slightly) different prospect. It at least has made an attempt at being similar to the old car, except for things like price obviously.

Neither car really does much, but at least BMW seem to have tried to put some performance into their car, but I don't know how successful they've been yet.

If anyone wants to know, new Beetle sales seem to have slumped already in Australia.

[kuchi]

I agree with both of you, here where I live those cars were and have been a legend too. A lot of people have Bettles which have 20 years of age and look brand new. As for the mini we can´t found many here, but the ones I have seen are relics. Noe it seems almost impossible to get the new beetle, because of it´s price, and believe me with all that money you could buy a way better car. Now, the new mini is a little more affordable, but not cheap at all. It seems that all the luxury in these cars have made them for a restricted public only, and they were supposed to be for the medium class people.

[Neil C]

Originally posted by elephino
To all those that have bought the new Beetle - you've been duped. All you've done is bought a Golf with less space, worse aerodynamics and no boot.

I don't understand how anyone could buy one.

I agree. They are marketed to the kind of people that use words like "cute" to describe a car. Nevermind it's impractical and overpriced.

A VW North America marketing exec told me the new beetle was designed to attract people to showrooms, so they could be sold up to higher priced cars. But they sold so well, they found they could charge more for the beetle and make a big profit.

They underestimated the gullibility of the consumer.

[Liz]

No, y'all are missing the point.

These cars are being manufactured and sold to sentimental baby boomers, who remember the old Age of Aquarius days when they drove Beetles and Minis and want something to remind them of what it was like to be young. If you have much occasion to enter a toy store you'll find that about half the "new" toys being sold today are reworked versions of the stuff we baby boomers had when we were kids - at ten times the price and in a somewhat tarted-up version because our standards are higher these days - and I'm told a lot of 50 somethings are buying this stuff FOR THEMSELVES.

At the Car Show in Toronto they were touting the "new" 1950s style Thunderbird, but they made the mistake of showing it side by each with the original version, and most people I heard talking about it said they liked the original better.

Cheap sentiment, that's all it is.

[Airhead]

You are effectively buying the dream. The beetle doesn't do it for me at all. I was too young for them when they were new in Australia, but Minis and Beetles were first car fodder for myself and my friends.

I noticed there were two sorts of people. Those that choose Minis and those that went the teutonic route. As I was/am six foot three, I choose a Mini.

And the new Mini does it for me, although the interior is a bit too over done with old style infuence tarted up with aluminium. But on the outside it looks great. I would like the hot Cooper version please so I can have the performance version of the dream.

[EERO]

Cheap sentiment, that's all it is.
-Liz

As some one who is cheap, (in both senses of the word) and painfully sentimental, (emphasis on "mental"), I have to say I like 'em both.

I have a new Golf and a Passat, never really really considered a Beetle. However, my sister's friend ran out to order one as soon as they were announced. In her mind she's been marching on Washington for years.

I know that a lot of people are offended by nostalgia, and feel that ressurecting past designs is a pointless exercise. But I suffer from acute nostalgia and I think that at least in the case of VW, they have captured the spirit of the design and made something much better. I really am impressed by the clarity odf the design and find that the interior is superb, (except for that idiotic bud vase)
When I see one on the road, and in Boston and The People's Republic of Cambridge, that's pretty darned frequently,I smile. I genuinely LIKE the way they look. I opted for the Golf because it was more practical and less of a "statement", but I do like the Bugs.

I haven't seen the new Mini yet except for Photos, but I like it as well. It isn't the same car as the original in any way, but it is a pretty neat little package.

As for the cost issue raised by Diabando, nothing is cheap any more and I doubt that the trendsetters would ever beat a path to Kia, Proton or Daewoo and create the mystique that surrounded the great small cars of the 50's nd 60's.

[Liz]

No, they won't. The Marching-On-Washington crowd, while showing up at marches to do away with modern society in Daddy's Volvo, are riding bicycles now. $800 sixteen speed mountain bikes, mind you - but bicycles.

Oh, I admit nostalgia has its place - I went into a shop last night and asked about an Italian doll baby that was like one I'd bought myself in Italy years ago and then given away to a child in Brazil (it looks eerily like a real infant and costs over $100) - but I hate the idea of corporate types pushing 70 million hot buttons in hopes that we'll snap up their recycled ideas.

However, if anyone brings out a new version of the Henry J, all bets are off. Especially if it is the Virginian. In its original aspect (and it was made only briefly in the 1950s) it could and still can outrun anything touted by the pinch-faced granola-heads of today.

[Sparky]

Hmmnn... Old design, new car. High price, new technology.

So it's nostalgia they want...

I can't speak for beetles, but I've been restoring original Minis for years. I think a new Mini will set you back about Ten Grand. For that, I could buy an old wreck of a Cooper 'S' - the original 'Car for the Boys' (John Cooper) - and restore it fully.
By that I mean, a BRAND NEW bodyshell from Rover Heritage, a new engine and gearbox, all the chrome trim and interior bits you could ever want and still have enough cash left to insure it for five years.
They still get 40 - 50 mpg at 60mph, so don't beat your gums about the environment. the new engine will be suitably modified to run on SuperPlus Unleaded, and you've saved the planet the hassle of coughing up the raw materials to produce the new (*shudder*) BMW version, which you could lose in a crowd and nobody would look twice at.
When I had my white Cooper, (pictures on my website ) I couldn't go anywhere without people stopping, staring and asking questions. And if you want a new 'old' car to make a statement, why not do the right thing and get yourself the original.

I would imagine the same could be said for the beetle, although they are really, really nasty cars to drive.

[EERO]

Sparky,
Minis: I adore them. However the very few that made it into the Northeast US died of Terminal Oxidation years ago. A healthy one, (and there are even FEWER in the States) will set you back $20,000 (for a Cooper)

In the best of all possible worlds, (and according to Voltaire, that was about 1960,) Minis rule.

[EERO]

Oh yeah, and I commute about 30 miles each way to work on a crowed Interstate known as "Death Alley" (enzo told me he pitied me).

I would be very relucant to drive a mini on a road filled with Toyota LandCruisers, Dodge Rams and Chevy Suburbans whose drivers tailgate while trading stocks on their cell phones. I'd be dead and you wouldn't have the benefit of my charm and wit.

[Sharky]

I agree with diabando but mainly because theyre' trying to merchandise cars that have very little to do with the originals.
I mean, who can forget the good old beatle with it's rear mounted, air cooled boxer engine that delivered modest power but seemed to last forever and ever. It has absolutely nothing to do with a car with a 1.8L turbo, water cooled engine mounted on the front. However it's supposed that somehow "The new beetle" is the "son" of the "Beetle" but they don't share the same "genes". Could it be that the beetle is not the real father?!?!?!??!?!

And though the exterior design shares some resemblance with the original beetle well.....I don't see no handle in the front, no air vents in the rear, no double exhaust and no "protruding" (does that word even exist???) rear lights.

And the story with the mini is more or less the same.

This is all just a nasty strategy by the car makes to exploit a legend's name to make more money......if you think about it.......it's like ABBA and the ABBA teens.

[Liz]

Or the Turbo Power Rangers. Just a merchandising ploy.

The original VW had no heater. You wouldn't sell a lot of those up here.

But it did float. I remember a one-off commercial speculating on "what if Ted Kennedy had been driving one."

Too horrifying to think about, that was.

And thank Goodness that Brett has beetled off somewhere and is not around to remind us that the VW was designed by Hitler.

[Airhead]

I thought it was designed by Dr Ferdinand Porsche. Whose family name disappeared into the dark recesses of history.

Sparky,

If I was a wealthy man I would pay hansomly to buy one of your restored original Mini Cooper S's. If I was a really wealthy man I'd pay to help with the rebuild.

[Liz]

Hitler had the original idea though. It was one of the few things he thought up that actually turned out to have any value.

Did the Porsche guy invent the Volkswagen or did the Volkswagen people invent the Porsche?

[Neil C]

Originally posted by Liz
And thank Goodness that Brett has beetled off somewhere and is not around to remind us that the VW was designed by Hitler.

LOL. I'd have to remind Brett that Hitler was also a vegetarian!

By the way, that VW ad was a parody by the National Lampoon.

[Liz]

Oh, thanks for the info on the VW ad - I probably saw it reproduced as "news" in Newsweek or something. It was all so long ago ...

[Neil C]

So just what are you trying to say Liz? While I was reading National Lampoon, you were reading Newsweek?

uh...you'ld be right. Comic books and Mad Magazine are further testimonials to my misspent youth.

[Orange]

Ok, here is how it went....

Hitler had the idea of a "Volkswagen" literally "peoples car" that every geman could afford. It would be sold as a "withhold a certain amount from each months paycheck, and in X years you get a VW." The cars mechanics were designed by Ferdinand Porsche (who later founded Porsche AG), but they borrowed heavily from the ideas of someone whos name escapes me, but who designed the Czechoslovakian Tatras (amazing cars.) Ferry Porsche as much as admitted later in life, that the layout, design, suspension and styling were heavily inspired by Tatra models.
There it is, courtesy of your Orange info service!