Mosley: Kimi Could Be Unfair WDC

[Led ZeppF1]

Its reported that Max Mosley believes if it had rained at Japan, Kimi would have won the WC and that would have been an "unfair" WC victory..

http://sport.guardian.co.uk/breaking...666353,00.html

[MichaelH]

I've never worked out what the hell that guy's on.

[Yoong Montoya]

Eh? Schumacher only needed 8th place or higher to win the title didn't he? And I don't really think Kimi deserved the title last year anyway.

[Shoe-maker]

So why did he change the points system then?

[Snrub]

Good point about him changing the points system, what's he questioning about, he made the numbers. I think it should have been something like 20-15-12-10-8-6-4-3-2-1. Even that doesn't seem quiet right. Make it out of 100 or something to better represent the typical deservingness of a X position finish...

I think he's right about MS deserving the WDC more than Kimi.

[Pitstop]

Originally posted by MichaelH
I've never worked out what the hell that guy's on.

Me neither - I wonder if his bank manager knows - or cares!!!

[grumpy1]

The reason behind why he stated that Kimi would have won was becuase Bridestone dry tyres don't like a damp track whereas Michelins can handle dampness long after thhe Bridgestone runners have changed to wets.As for KImi not being a deserving champion Mosley can kiss my hairy black @@@@.Shows how much he loves MS and Ferrari.Don't look now Max but I doubt MS will win the championship this year unless of course Ferrari come crying about illeagl tyres again.

The Grumpy1

[rpolinski]

Originally posted by Shoe-maker
So why did he change the points system then?

He changed the points system because over the previous few years TGF and Ferrari were the most consistent so the FIA could be seen to bring Ferrari back to field without actually disadvantaging them. Little did Max realise TGF was going to shoot himself in the foot early on.

[RWC]

What a lump of dribbling useless talk from moansly.
He COULD have stalked about that subject with regards to his dumb points system or said the michy tyre controvesy was the right and fair thing to do but he just ***** on about nothing at all relevent

[EDIT:]I'm not sure if that was a typo or what, but the word needed to be removed![/EDIT]

[Smokey 6 litre]

Originally posted by Snrub
Make it out of 100 or something to better represent the typical deservingness of a X position finish...

Out of 100! thats way too american for me, too many numbers, i dont like series where drivers finish the season on 3500 points, although the points would remain roughly in proprtion it'd devalue the workth of 1 point.

[krt917]

Yes I agree Smokey, though the main issue is the proportion. A second place finish should not be 80% of a win. The old 60% (10-6) wasn't great, but the new system is even worse.

Mosley has a point, but if Kimi had become an unfair WDC then wouldn't it be Max's fault!?

[nippy]

Post edit - Zero Tolerance - Wrex

[Gavin Forman]

I agree with Nippy and Grumpy1. Max and the boys should leave racing to the people who can do it without there hepl. Fortunately there are drivers line Alonso, Kimi, Webber etc. who can drive and get points without the FIA intervening. No wonder JPM and KR were punished so much last year with drive through penalties etc, and the Michelin tyre CR!@. MM realised then that the point system was not favouring Ferrari and MS so he had to do something. The headlines after Japan should have read "FIA wins their 6th F1 WDC" MS can defintately not do it on his own.

[krt917]

I'm afraid I would have to disagree with that. Some decisions concerning Ferrari have certainly been strange, but then we know that the FIA do do strange things occassionally. Criticising their own points system, for example! The system was, if anything, introduced to make the championship closer after Ferrari had dominated it for a couple of seasons. Personally, I think that was he wrong reason to change it, but I don't believe that it was fr Ferrari's benefit. Quite the opposite in fact.

The Michelin tyre controversey was unfortunate, but Michelin seemed to get on with it and I ahev little doubt they will provide the best tyres this season.

You may not like Michael Schumacher, but the fact is that he has been the best driver in F1 for about a decade now
and you don't 'luck' into 6 World titles and 70-odd GP wins.

After all that, I still think they should change the points system again!

[deeks6]

Wise words, krt ... the "anti-schume's" are certainly alive and well without any research into the facts. We're all thoroughly sick of him winning but there are probably some good reasons why he does and I doubt if it's luck.

As for the point system, the original 9-6-4-3-2-1 was without doubt the fairest system. This closing of the gap between the placegetters is a disease happening in many series around the world and totally devaluing a WIN. And the reason the points are going further into the field is so that sponsors can at least see that their team got some points, but again is dumb IMO. Why give someone 1 or 2 or whatever points for trundling around in 13th place 5 laps behind?

[sonic]

Hang on guys - excuse me for being a bit thick with numbers - but if the points system wasn't revised would TGF still have won the 2003 wdc? or what?

How many times in the past would the winner of the championship have been different if we had always used the latest points system?

[Adam43]

I'm not really sure what the Michelin tyres controversy that happened between Hungary and Monza have to do with this. Same season and perhaps effected things.

Max is suggesting that if it rained (lightly) in Suzuka. Kimi might have been able to get past Rubens and Michael might have slipped to 9th or lower:

max in the linked Guardian article
"The way the tyres were, I think it is very doubtful Barrichello could have held onto first place if it had rained and very doubtful that Michael could have held onto eighth.

I think this is not an unreasonable view.
He also says he thinks that Michael deserved the title more than Kimi:

"I think we would have seen a different world champion. I don't think it would have bean a fair result."

Again, one man's opinion, that isn't unreasonable either. I tend to agree.

Although I find it slightly ironic that it was the FIA that made it closer! Still at least Max pays attention and notices the downside to the new system.

[Gt_R]

Haha..

I really don't see much wrong with what Max said, it's strange how the anti-Ferrari can dig much to complain about.

I don't like the new points system. While i do agree that the points ought to be given to more finishers, the gap between 1st and 2nd makes it pointless for drivers to actually fight for the lead.

And Max din't say Kimi is not good enough for WDC, all he said that Michael deserves it more than Kimi and hence only fair that Michael got it. Which sounds right to me.

People who complain of FIA cheating and helping Ferrari/MS, get your brains checked thank you.

[deeks6]

The old system would have yielded EXACTLY the same result for the first 8 in the WDC, except that Schumacher would have won by more (not unreasonable when he won 6 races, 4 more than the next best). The Pts would have been:
MS 77 KR 67 JPM 62 RB 48 RS 41 FA 35 DC 33 JT 15

[Smokey 6 litre]

how about, 12,10,8,6,4,3,2,1 although thats not perfect either, its a real tough issue to get it right.

Kimmi wouldn' have been an uanfair WDC, he drove well and if he got most points then he would've been the right champion, as it was TGF was the winner and imho deservedly so (at least he was pushed)

[Pit_Lane_Babe]

[i]Originally posted by Gavin Forman:

MM realised then that the point system was not favouring Ferrari and MS so he had to do something. The headlines after Japan should have read "FIA wins their 6th F1 WDC" MS can defintately not do it on his own. [/B]

I totally agree with you here! It looks like Max is showing his bias side to Ferrari here, which it not a wise idea. He is like a kid throwing his toys out of the pram.
As for Kimi, if he had won the chapionchip, I would have been very pleased. I think he would have deserved it.
As for the point about him being harsh with Monty and Ralf when he realised the point system that they had worked so carefully on, wasn't doing Shuey any favors.....very interesting.

[Snrub]

I'm no MS fan, but does anyone honestly think Kimi came even close to deserving it more than MS?!? Compared to other years it didn't seem like anyone deserved it as much as usual. MS had some problems and his car wasn't exactly tops in the 2nd half (although I don't like mentioning cars). The Williams drivers were inconsistent in their performances. Kimi didn't seem to do anything particularly extrodinary.

I didn't realize with the old system that the points would have been so similar.

As for the high point numbers, I don't like high points totals either, but I think a better method of evaluating performance can be found. 12 10, etc. has an even smaller gap between first and second than 10 and 8. (percentage wise) I think that's moving in the wrong direction.

[Jordi]

There is no unfair champion. If Kimi had been the champion, he'd be deserving of it.

[oblivion]

I never saw the point of reducing the points gap between 1st and 2nd. At least 4 points difference is needed. 12-8-6-5-4-3-2-1 sounds about right to me.

Beyond that, if Kimi had won it, it wouldn't have been unfair. Championships have been won on consistency before. Rosberg '82 is a prime example.

[gttouring]

"out of a hundred thats way too american for me, too many numbers"
have you seen OzV8Supercars?
that's a ridiculous points system.