Alloy wheel nuts

[jonners]

Having robbed a (large) bank in order to pay for a set of forged alloy wheel nuts I've just discovered they've been banned by the MSA.

How ridiculous - I mean, when I started the wheelnuts I used were a zillion years old and very very well used. Never ever saw a scrute even look at them.

What about Porsches - and others - where alloy wheel nuts are fitted as standard??

They are so lovely they probably should be on the mantlepiece rather than the car but what's going on??

Anyone know of any alloy wheel nut incidents lately?

Are the big single nuts on single seaters steel or alloy??

[AU N EGL]

IIRC alloy lug nuts tend to expand when heated from use. as they expand they loosen. So steel lug nuts are used / required at races.

Plus as alloy lug nuts are put on and taken off several times, the threads tend to get worn down and not hold as tight as they use too.

Many ppl use hardened streel lug nuts and ARP studs to prevent such an incident.

[jonners]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

steel lug nuts are used / required at races

The banning of alloy wheelnuts has only just happened here - just wondering if anyone knows why the sudden change

How do the nuts loosen if they expand - surely the hole thro the middle gets smaller rather than bigger?? And the threads 'fill up' more??? Or doesn't it work like that??

Any Porsche drivers out there??

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by jonners

The banning of alloy wheelnuts has only just happened here - just wondering if anyone knows why the sudden change

How do the nuts loosen if they expand - surely the hole thro the middle gets smaller rather than bigger?? And the threads 'fill up' more??? Or doesn't it work like that??

Any Porsche drivers out there??

The hole in the lug nut expands, as the whole lug nut expands when heated.

And each time the lug nut is put on, might be a little of the alumium is shaved off, so the threads are not as tight as they were the first time.

Personally the minimal wt saved with the aluminum bing lug nuts are not worth a wheel coming off at high speeds.

I use open ended hardened steel lug nuts, about $1.50 each at a auto parts store.

[greenamex2]

Actually they have been banned for years.

I know because I got thrown out of scrutineering at Lydden several years ago.

I ended up fitting rusty worn out 25 year old very short trailer nuts.

Up until that point I had been using ali nuts for years with not problems.

To make a blanket statement that ali nuts are 'unsafe' because they expand more than steel disregards the hundreds of possible materials it could be made out of.

I guess the MSA are just covering themselves in case somebody started making them out of some real junk cast material.

[graham bahr]

dennis is right they havnt been allowed for years, which always made me giggle when i see compomotives still current advert for competition alloy wheel nuts

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by Denis Bassom

To make a blanket statement that ali nuts are 'unsafe' because they expand more than steel disregards the hundreds of possible materials it could be made out of.

I guess the MSA are just covering themselves in case somebody started making them out of some real junk cast material.

You know how it goes. Somethind DIFFERENT AND NEW, just never goes over very will with Officials / Tech ppl. No matter how good it may be.

[jonners]

Originally Posted by graham bahr

dennis is right they havnt been allowed for years, which always made me giggle when i see compomotives still current advert for competition alloy wheel nuts

Blast!! We bought some - they are astonishingly light and very nicely made. Thought it was a new thing in the blue book but if not it serves us right for not reading it properly.

Still think it's a daft rule for the likes of a hillclimber like me.

[GORDON STREETER]

jonners the coificient of linear expansion, (that's a big sentence ) will answer the question on the "hole" getting bigger if you are still interested !

[jonners]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

jonners the coificient of linear expansion, (that's a big sentence ) will answer the question on the "hole" getting bigger if you are still interested !

I understand that - just about - but the expansion isn't only longditudinal (spelling) - is it??

I might have got this so wrong that it sounds like I'm making it up but as far as the ring (that is, the nut) is concerned it doesn't all expand in one direction - in other words, as the od gets bigger the id gets smaller

Or perhaps I didn't understand the linear wotsit thing at all...word of warning...as an engineer i make a damn fine hillclimber (er, which isn't saying much unfortunately...)

Don't hesitate to educate me - I'm a safe pair of hands because I know what i don't know which is anything so might as well start somewhere...

[tristancliffe]

Originally Posted by jonners

I understand that - just about - but the expansion isn't only longditudinal (spelling) - is it??

I might have got this so wrong that it sounds like I'm making it up but as far as the ring (that is, the nut) is concerned it doesn't all expand in one direction - in other words, as the od gets bigger the id gets smaller

Or perhaps I didn't understand the linear wotsit thing at all...word of warning...as an engineer i make a damn fine hillclimber (er, which isn't saying much unfortunately...)

Don't hesitate to educate me - I'm a safe pair of hands because I know what i don't know which is anything so might as well start somewhere...

As the OD gets bigger, the ID gets bigger too. And the ring gets thicker (viewed side on).

Basically, imagine the metal that makes up the circumference of any hole. Now expand that metal. Whether it's an ID or an OD, the longer circumference equals a larger hole. GCSE/O Level Physics standard I'm afraid to say, maybe earlier.

[jonners]

but if i blow more air into my daughter's swimming armbands she tell me they get tighter

[rcarr]

The fact is that they don't really care at scruitineering, they only seem to care if there is a blaringly obvious rule infringement. Surely they can't tell if they are alloy or steel nuts by looking at them?

[jonners]

They did notice once last year (but let it go when i pointed out the number of Porsches getting ready to go) because they're anodised and look a bit nobby/Max Power...

[GORDON STREETER]

jonners Just to prove a point , how do we fit starter ring gears ? we warm them up and they fall on the flywheel. When they cool down you won't get it off in a hurry . End of lesson . Getting back to the original question the strength of aluminium size for size on a thread compared with steel is nowhere as good .

[jonners]

Originally Posted by GORDON STREETER

jonners Just to prove a point , how do we fit starter ring gears ? we warm them up and they fall on the flywheel. When they cool down you won't get it off in a hurry . End of lesson . Getting back to the original question the strength of aluminium size for size on a thread compared with steel is nowhere as good .

Funny you should mention that - the same thing came to mind with lock rings on half shafts - but then i remembered you need a press for those...but point taken.

Watch out for some damn fine wheel nuts on ebay very soon, low reserve, very light so cheap to post!!