ALMS/LMS Pay

[Ultimo]

I realize it is a bit brave to make my first post a new thread, but I've done a search on the net and 10 Tenths and nothing's come up.

Anyways, first off, I go by the name Ultimo here (I'm known as Kitdy on an other forum so hello to anyone from that other forum out there - I know you're here) and I'd like to say hello to all the members here and look forward to joining the community after having ghosted here for a few weeks/months.

Anyways, I was wondering what sorta pay scale drivers in the ALMS/LMS have. Clearly big teams like Audi, Peugeot, Penske, Corvette, Aston Martin (at Le Mans) will pay their drivers more than small teams, but I have no idea what any team makes. Are there any pay drivers in these series?

What about something like FIA GT? Or GT3?

Finally, I was wondering if anyone knows a source of the current contracts/pay of the F1 drivers.

Many thanks in advance.

[rich07]

Welcome to the forums Ultimo!

For F1 questions please ask in the Formula One section of the forums, they should be able to help you better anyway.

FIA GT3 is made up mainly if not completely of gentlemen drivers who bring sponsorship to the team to race-it is a series for gentlemen and young up and coming drivers not for professional drivers.

[Ultimo]

Originally Posted by rich07

Welcome to the forums Ultimo!

For F1 questions please ask in the Formula One section of the forums, they should be able to help you better anyway.

Thanks!

I was thinking of posting there but didn't want to start two threads for one similar topic.

[chernaudi]

Factory teams in the ALMS don't recieve race-to-race prize money, which is mostly reserved for privateer teams. But IMSA's definition(as well as that of the ACO's if you ask me) is pretty sketchy-Champion Racing from 2001 through '05 was heavily factory supported by Audi, but was still eligiable for prize money and privateer bonuses. Acura's teams are in much the same boat as Champion was.

If a team is a privateer by IMSA's definitions, they get a majority of the prize money through out the year, which with the race winners being guarenteed $35K for the LMP classes and $25K for GT classes, IMSA's loose definentions for what a privateer team is is understandable.

[TheNewBob]

Originally Posted by Ultimo

I realize it is a bit brave to make my first post a new thread

Brave, yes, but at least you've picked a unique and intriguing topic!

Originally Posted by Ultimo

Anyways, I was wondering what sorta pay scale drivers in the ALMS/LMS have. Clearly big teams like Audi, Peugeot, Penske, Corvette, Aston Martin (at Le Mans) will pay their drivers more than small teams, but I have no idea what any team makes.

The works teams will pay their drivers, numerous people are on the books of Audi and Porsche for starters, I can't imagine them doing it for free. The manufacturer teams will operate at a loss, they are in it for the public exposure and act as both technical exercises and an extension of the company's marketing/advertising department. I wouldn't have thought many of the private teams make a profit either, really.

Originally Posted by Ultimo

Are there any pay drivers in these series?

Oh yes. Ohhh yes! Lots!

[GTfour]

Hi there Ultimo,

Welcome to 10/10ths. Beware,this is a very adictive forum!

"Are there any pay drivers in these series?"

Sure there are. Andy Wallace,Jan Lammers,Tomas Enge and Peter Kox to name but a few. These guys never miss out on the big races and are allways scooped up by some fantastic sportscarteam...what a life!

What they get payed these days,I don't know. What I do know,is that Jan Lammers earned in the order of $230.000 a month(!) in 1989 when he raced the Jaguars in the sportscarchampionship...

[The Badger]

230.000 a month in 1989 ..... is that all !!!

I didnt think they paid so much back then . I was earning 3000 pounds a month back then , and I was delighted !!!

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by The Badger

230.000 a month in 1989 ..... is that all !!!

I didnt think they paid so much back then . I was earning 3000 pounds a month back then , and I was delighted !!!

Quite a lot of people still would be - £36,000 a year - 19 years ago?

[AU N EGL]

Hey welcome to 10/10ths.

Most driver contracts are kept very very private between the team and the driver.

F1 and NASCAR drivers get the real big money.

Contract factory drivers dont make as much as you think. But then again they have a yearly contract and dont go race to race looking for work.

But then again, they ARE racing for a living.

[mountainstar]

From what I heard the "factory" drivers make low to mid six figures. I sure there are a few that make a lot more, some less. There are also guns for hire that race multiple continents thoughout the year almost every weekend, so I'm sure they do well financially.

[The Badger]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

£36,000 a year - 19 years ago?

Yep ..... Thats why I was delighted . Working down in sunny Toulouse for Airbus . Great money then ..... I dont even come close in terms of inflation now

Oh yeah ..... and that was a 36 hour week too !!!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by mountainstar

From what I heard the "factory" drivers make low to mid six figures. I sure there are a few that make a lot more, some less. There are also guns for hire that race multiple continents thoughout the year almost every weekend, so I'm sure they do well financially.

Spoke with a good friend of mine who is a Coach for many ALMS and Grand AM DP drivers. I asked him the general question of what these guys make?

First he said there almost no annual contracts. Pay was a range from $3,000 to $5,000 per race, base and bonus for finish placing an not crashing the car.

The other thing he mentioned was Not many drivers get paid that amount. Most drivers bring in the sponsor to the team and the sponsor pays there wages, again in the $3 to $5,000 per race.

So a 12 race season $36,000 to $50,000 which is about what I had thought. SO what is the convention now approx. £18 to £25,000.

Most drivers also have to provided their own insurance for health care accidents as a result of accidents and accidents to the race car caused when they drive.

Also asked about NASCAR pay as he works with many NASCAR drivers too, about the same. for 90% of the drivers.

[courageous]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Most drivers also have to provided their own insurance for health care accidents as a result of accidents and accidents to the race car caused when they drive.

To put that into perspective - a driver who was asked to qualify a car at Indy last week was offered $10,000 to do so; but turned it down as his insurance would have cost him $35,000.

LMPs (and GTs) would probably get cheaper insurance because of better driver protection, but still if it were as low as $25,000 per month that's a quarter of a million you need to be paid just to break even (plus expenses).

Also, when you have drivers like Villeneuve, Wurz, Panis etc... dropping by for the odd race; I would imagine the inflated F1 wages they are used to would push things up.

[cmk]

Originally Posted by GTfour

Hi there Ultimo,

Welcome to 10/10ths. Beware,this is a very adictive forum!

"Are there any pay drivers in these series?"

Sure there are. Andy Wallace,Jan Lammers,Tomas Enge and Peter Kox to name but a few. These guys never miss out on the big races and are allways scooped up by some fantastic sportscarteam...what a life!

What they get payed these days,I don't know. What I do know,is that Jan Lammers earned in the order of $230.000 a month(!) in 1989 when he raced the Jaguars in the sportscarchampionship...

A minor semantic point about English (which is totally hypocritical given that I know nothing of Dutch at all) but 'pay driver' is usually used to refer to a gentlemen driver paying for the seat, while 'paid driver' would be someone getting $$ to race. Your examples most assuredly fall into the latter category.

As for the original question, as those before me have stated, each series contains the full gamut of drivers - those paid by factory or team, those paid by sponsor, those essentially driving for free or with minor stipend, those paying through sponsorship, and those wealthy enough to pay out of pocket.

[mountainstar]

Originally Posted by AU N EGL

Spoke with a good friend of mine who is a Coach for many ALMS and Grand AM DP drivers. I asked him the general question of what these guys make?

First he said there almost no annual contracts. Pay was a range from $3,000 to $5,000 per race, base and bonus for finish placing an not crashing the car.

The other thing he mentioned was Not many drivers get paid that amount. Most drivers bring in the sponsor to the team and the sponsor pays there wages, again in the $3 to $5,000 per race.

So a 12 race season $36,000 to $50,000 which is about what I had thought. SO what is the convention now approx. £18 to £25,000.

Most drivers also have to provided their own insurance for health care accidents as a result of accidents and accidents to the race car caused when they drive.

Also asked about NASCAR pay as he works with many NASCAR drivers too, about the same. for 90% of the drivers.

That wouldn't surprise me about the wages. But I do know there are guys that make six figures with Audi and such.

Another interesting thing I heard was about Porsche Supercup. Because the series is on the F1 card and sponsors are more plentiful it is often better to race there than other sportscar series. Uwe Alzen apparently gets high six figures which is way in excess of what Mercedes used to pay for his DTM wages.

[Ultimo]

Thanks for the warm welcome and info guys!

[AU N EGL]

Originally Posted by cmk

A minor semantic point about English (which is totally hypocritical given that I know nothing of Dutch at all) but 'pay driver' is usually used to refer to a gentlemen driver paying for the seat, while 'paid driver' would be someone getting $$ to race. Your examples most assuredly fall into the latter category.

As for the original question, as those before me have stated, each series contains the full gamut of drivers - those paid by factory or team, those paid by sponsor, those essentially driving for free or with minor stipend, those paying through sponsorship, and those wealthy enough to pay out of pocket.

Yes. In other words NOT MUCH. Some drivers are getting paid to race. A vast majority of pros are not paid very much.

that is where that Wealth Gentleman driver comes in. He brings LOTS of cash to the team, The teams "ace" driver teaches this Gentleman driver how to drive better and faster.
Team Owner is happy and everyone goes racing.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally Posted by cmk

A minor semantic point about English (which is totally hypocritical given that I know nothing of Dutch at all) but 'pay driver' is usually used to refer to a gentlemen driver paying for the seat, while 'paid driver' would be someone getting $$ to race. Your examples most assuredly fall into the latter category.

As for the original question, as those before me have stated, each series contains the full gamut of drivers - those paid by factory or team, those paid by sponsor, those essentially driving for free or with minor stipend, those paying through sponsorship, and those wealthy enough to pay out of pocket.

IN the US a "pay driver" is some one who buys his ride, talent level means nothing.
Indy is the crown jewel for pay drivers.

A "paid" driver is self-explanetory.

I wonder, is a hot-shoe, team owner/driver an unpaid driver, or a paying-through-nose driver?

Bob