Phantom Red Flag

mark_l · 6 May 2006, 13:25 (Ref:1601735)

Could a team (Red Bull) who has just missed the cut in the first qualifying session due to the phantom red flag be able to appeal to the FIA Stewards against the decision of the timekeepers?

BootsOntheSide · 6 May 2006, 13:30 (Ref:1601739)

They certainly should, the whole situation was a fiasco. If it turns out to have been caused by human error, somebody has some explaining to do if they wish to keep their job. The fairest solution would have been to allow anybody who had a reasonable case that they could've made the 2nd session into it - that certainly includes Klien and Albers.

Christian looked angry afterwards, and quite rightly so; he was unlucky to miss out in Imola, but at least that was down to something the team did wrong. This time, they followed the rules rather then continuing at full speed and incurring the risk of coming up to an incident at full speed, and lost out through it.

kipper · 6 May 2006, 15:07 (Ref:1601787)

Whilst a team such as Red Bull could complain to the FIA over Klien's absence from 2nd qualifying, one would question the point of it given that I can't imagine that the FIA would place a driver higher up the grid than they qualified as any time applied to that driver would ultimately be subjective.

In my view, the only fair course of action would have been to have declared the first session void and allowed all 22 cars into the second session to establish the top 10 shoot out.

Knowlesy · 6 May 2006, 15:09 (Ref:1601790)

Or run the first session again!

*dream on*

Marcel ten Caat · 6 May 2006, 15:24 (Ref:1601799)

Quote:

Originally Posted by kipper

In my view, the only fair course of action would have been to have declared the first session void and allowed all 22 cars into the second session to establish the top 10 shoot out.

Isn't that what the DTM did last weekend when something happened and noone was able to qualify. They just scrapped session 1 and gave everyone a 2nd chance.

Marcel ten Caat · 6 May 2006, 15:40 (Ref:1601803)

lemme rephrase that...

noone was able to qualify = several drivers were unable to qualify.

marzF1rocks · 6 May 2006, 15:49 (Ref:1601805)

I really think qualifiying should have been restarted.

That flag caused a lot of teams problems

Menelaos · 6 May 2006, 15:54 (Ref:1601808)

the solution was really really simple in my opinion. They could just do it like in the final part and let everyone finish their laps if they've started them before the end of the session. This way everyone would have enough time to do a final lap, and they wouldn't need to restart the session or anything like that. It would be like giving them 1:30 extra time.

**Adam43** · 6 May 2006, 16:17 (Ref:1601831)

This problem with that is the time taken to think of it, consider the implications and communicate it to everyone and wait for everyone to agree.

ECW Dan Selby · 6 May 2006, 16:27 (Ref:1601838)

Yeh. I think it's a damn site easier for us to sit here and say what should have happened. But imagine having to make a snap decision on the spot.

I know I couldn't have come up with much under that pressure lol

Selby

marzF1rocks · 6 May 2006, 16:31 (Ref:1601841)

it still wasn't fair though...

but as nothing like this has happened before, i suppose it is hard to find the right answer to sitution that everyones going to be happy with

Menelaos · 6 May 2006, 16:51 (Ref:1601852)

Yeah I know I'm on a comfortable couch judging the ones who made the decisions, but this one was far too obvious imo. They ruined people's chances, they could have easily at least given them an extra 2 minutes or do what I said above

kipper · 6 May 2006, 17:21 (Ref:1601876)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menelaos

They ruined people's chances, they could have easily at least given them an extra 2 minutes or do what I said above

I would imagine that content of the rule book dealing with incorrect information regarding red flags is somewhat minimal. Therefore, I wouldn't have thought that there are any procedures for automatically adding time to a qualifying session. Subsequently, by the time the FIA/stewards/anyone else with a vested interest had decided on a course of action, the original session would have finished, therefore I can't imagine that this proposal would have been feasible.

**Adam43** · 6 May 2006, 17:35 (Ref:1601891)

There has been a statement from FOM:

Quote:

Originally Posted by FOM

Due to an electronic fault with the starting lights panel, an erroneous session abort signal was displayed on the start lights and timing information pages during the Formula One qualifying session.

They then repeat God's final message to his creation.
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/51408

As for what was obvious. Well my thought was to do something similar to what was done in DTM last weekend. That does not rely on a practically impossible situation of communication and implementation.

JABWOA · 8 May 2006, 03:07 (Ref:1602954)

It's happened before (at Monaco if I recall) when dash lights were first coming in. Even during a race... (allegedly some cars had taped over the light as it would come on intermittently, so when a red was called for a car stalled on the grid on race start another group of cars going into Loews had a small accident when one car slowed for the red and the rest kept racing...)

ian_c_uk · 8 May 2006, 13:33 (Ref:1603359)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BootsOntheSide

If it turns out to have been caused by human error, somebody has some explaining to do if they wish to keep their job.

If the marshal was at fault for reacting to the lights, then there is no job to lose, they are unpaid voluntary workers as far as I know, the same as in the UK.

mark_l · 8 May 2006, 15:12 (Ref:1603429)

I suspect someone in race control leant on the big red button but of course no one will be found guilty.

**Adam43** · 8 May 2006, 17:58 (Ref:1603553)

Someone must be to blame, we must sack someone!

ss_collins · 8 May 2006, 20:00 (Ref:1603657)

Max!

Dutton · 9 May 2006, 06:16 (Ref:1603936)

Letting everyone into the 2nd session is what occured to me, but the other option is what occured.

Adding additional time, or whatever, just gets far too complicated to be operable in such short times frames and what not.

Suze · 9 May 2006, 09:53 (Ref:1604065)

I missed qually...how much of the session was there left before the phantom red flag?

Knowlesy · 9 May 2006, 09:56 (Ref:1604066)

Four or five minutes I think...

**Adam43** · 9 May 2006, 10:52 (Ref:1604111)

I think it was 3 minutes 20 something. I can't check at the moment.

Suze · 10 May 2006, 08:36 (Ref:1604874)

Ah ok, enough for a couple of laps then...

Menelaos · 10 May 2006, 08:48 (Ref:1604890)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutton

Adding additional time, or whatever, just gets far too complicated to be operable in such short times frames and what not.

Yeah, I agree, that's why I said that the easiest way to do it would be to just say, "just start your lap before the end of the session and you're free to finish it", just like they do on the third session. That would be very easy I think, at least from a technical point of view.

I'm pretty sure that happened with 2:30 or so left, cause I remember thinking "great, now they can't do any fast laps", cause they wouldn't have time to finish before the end of the session. I could be wrong though

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