Now that Perez is going at McLaren...

[karimbo]

... Massa will stay at Ferrari one more year, until Kubica is well enough to become Alonso's team mate...

Am I right? I hope so!

[Mixer]

Massa is going to be around a long time then. Kubica is not coming back.

[Razor]

TGF back to the Scuderia?

[p-matt]

It all really depends on how firm that Vettel 2014 deal is. And their decision not to take Perez suggests they thing it's fairly nailed on that Seb will be a Ferrari driver in 2014. If so, there's no real reason to drop Massa until then, even if a Hulkenberg or a di Resta would be a much better choice.

[Razzzor]

I still don't see Vettel at Ferrari while Alonso is there. Alonso will never okay that, will he?

[Mr V]

Originally Posted by p-matt

It all really depends on how firm that Vettel 2014 deal is. And their decision not to take Perez suggests they thing it's fairly nailed on that Seb will be a Ferrari driver in 2014. If so, there's no real reason to drop Massa until then, even if a Hulkenberg or a di Resta would be a much better choice.

I agree. I think the fact that Ferrari haven't signed anyone yet suggests that they will stick with Massa until Seb arrives.

All this "Perez is not ready" talk by Luca was nonsense, surely they would have learnt from last time with Kimi.

[QnickFTW]

Originally Posted by Razzzor

I still don't see Vettel at Ferrari while Alonso is there. Alonso will never okay that, will he?

Ultimately he will have to realize beating a high-profile team-mate is something his CV seriously lacks.

Trulli was dropped at Renault the moment he got the upper hand on him, and Lewis outqualified and outscored him (by zero point) as a ROOKIE.

I dont think Alonso could beat Vettel, but he better be a man up for the challenge.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by QnickFTW

Ultimately he will have to realize beating a high-profile team-mate is something his CV seriously lacks.

Just 'beating' them is never the issue. Getting the 'control' within the team is the issue. I don't think anyone's really doubting his CV, he's not exactly after a job as the office junior.....

And personally I haven't the slightest doubt that Alonso can beat Vettel in equal equipment - in fact, I'd put money on it.

[Knowlesy]

I'd put my house on it.

[QnickFTW]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

And personally I haven't the slightest doubt that Alonso can beat Vettel in equal equipment - in fact, I'd put money on it.

You dont have the slightest doubt, really? I guess you didnt have the slightest doubt about him beating a rookie at Mclaren too so you must excuse me if I dont read much into what you have or dont have a doubt about. Trulli was ahead of him both in terms of qualifying and points when he was dropped at Renault, did you have the slightest doubt back then?

Anyway, if we still remember this up around November 2014, lets just say you come here, eat a fat chunk of humble pie and paypal 10 quid to any registered charity of your choice if Seb beats Alonso in equal equipment by then. I will certainly pop-in to do the same if it ends up the other way around.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by QnickFTW

You dont have the slightest doubt, really? I guess you didnt have the slightest doubt about him beating a rookie at Mclaren too so you must excuse me if I dont read much into what you have or dont have a doubt about. Trulli was ahead of him both in terms of qualifying and points when he was dropped at Renault, did you have the slightest doubt back then?

Anyway, if we still remember this up around November 2014, lets just say you come here, eat a fat chunk of humble pie and paypal 10 quid to any registered charity of your choice if Seb beats Alonso in equal equipment by then. I will certainly pop-in to do the same if it ends up the other way around.

No problem for me at all - you can call me on that any time you like. I consider Alonso to be a far superior driver in all respects.

Oh and I didn't say anything about Alonso at McLaren or anywhere else - I'm referring to Alonso v. Vettel at Ferrari and I wouldn't even mention Trulli in the same sentence, quite frankly.

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I'd put my house on it.

Absolutely - it's almost not even a fair contest - but I've never shied from taking the candy......

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Just 'beating' them is never the issue. Getting the 'control' within the team is the issue. I don't think anyone's really doubting his CV, he's not exactly after a job as the office junior.....

And personally I haven't the slightest doubt that Alonso can beat Vettel in equal equipment - in fact, I'd put money on it.

I wouldn't agree that if you put Vettel and Alonso in high calibre equal cars Alonso would be the quickest... in fact I think it would be Vettel... but as you quite rightly point out, that's not what winning an F1 WDC is about. It entails so much more. This year Alonso has managed to draw the team around him and motivate them in a way that benefits his situation. He has pulverised his [slightly weaker] team mate. He has brought the weakest of the top 3 cars to a level it shouldn't be. He has amassed good points race after race even though he often hasn't looked anywhere close to winning and he has remained consistent as everyone around him hasn't. This is the kind of thing his illustrious German predecessor in red was famous for and it's this that takes Alonso to a level above anyone else on the grid right now.

[Aysedasi]

Originally Posted by davyboy

I wouldn't agree that if you put Vettel and Alonso in high calibre equal cars Alonso would be the quickest... in fact I think it would be Vettel... but as you quite rightly point out, that's not what winning an F1 WDC is about. It entails so much more. This year Alonso has managed to draw the team around him and motivate them in a way that benefits his situation. He has pulverised his [slightly weaker] team mate. He has brought the weakest of the top 3 cars to a level it shouldn't be. He has amassed good points race after race even though he often hasn't looked anywhere close to winning and he has remained consistent as everyone around him hasn't. This is the kind of thing his illustrious German predecessor in red was famous for and it's this that takes Alonso to a level above anyone else on the grid right now.

Although we may quite happily disagree as to the likely outcome of a straight fight over a season, I can live quite easily with the rest of your assessment..... I wouldn't see this at all like, say, Senna taking over McLaren from Prost (whose team it clearly was). That was an irresistible force, to all intents and purposes. But Vettel taking on Alonso in his own 'back yard' - it would be fun, but I still believe that without Horner's arm around his shoulders and 'Well done Seb' cooing, he'd find it very hard indeed. Much the same as if Alonso was going to replace Webber at RB.... I stress, IMO.

[QnickFTW]

I think thats the great thing about the prospect of a Vettel vs Alonso line-up, it will polarize the F1 world and get people talking.

We didnt have such a pairing since Alonso vs Hamilton, and I frankly miss that, two team-mates going at it at a top-team.

[garcon]

There seems to be an awful lot of people who believe Alonso would block the arrival of a driver capable of challenging him. I'm not sure that's the case. In fact I'd say it's Vettel taking the bigger risk if he does team up with Alonso in 2014.

I agree with Ayse - put Vettel and Alonso in the same machinery now (or in a year) and there will only be one winner. However, if Vettel continues to realise his potential, and learns from Alonso about how to win WDCs without the best car, then one day he may be considered Alonso's equal.


And QnickFTW - I think you should try showing a little more respect when you're disagreeing with one of our more, ahem, senior members.

[QnickFTW]

Originally Posted by garcon

if Vettel continues to realise his potential, and learns from Alonso about how to win WDCs without the best car.

Vettel IS winning the WDC without the best car as we speak.

Originally Posted by garcon

And QnickFTW - I think you should try showing a little more respect when you're disagreeing with one of our more, ahem, senior members.

Couldnt care less about senior or not. My opinion is as good as anyone else's. In fact, Alonso has been out qualified and out raced by Trulli and Hamilton before, Vettel has always got the upper hand on his team-mates. They are both double World Champions so there is nothing too obvious about how their partnership may or may not end up. It's anyone's guess right now.

[garcon]

Originally Posted by QnickFTW

Vettel IS winning the WDC without the best car as we speak.

Ah yes, of course. I had to check the table to confirm that Vettel is winning by minus 29 points over Alonso.

Couldnt care less about senior or not. My opinion is as good as anyone else's.

It's not about holding and expressing a different opinion. It's about not being disrespectful to other members and their opinions. Try to be polite and people will respect you more in return.

[JeremySmith]

Originally Posted by QnickFTW

Couldnt care less about senior or not. My opinion is as good as anyone else's.

It is advisable not to post in this manner, follow garcon's advice..

[alfettafan]

Originally Posted by Aysedasi

Just 'beating' them is never the issue. Getting the 'control' within the team is the issue. I don't think anyone's really doubting his CV, he's not exactly after a job as the office junior.....

And personally I haven't the slightest doubt that Alonso can beat Vettel in equal equipment - in fact, I'd put money on it.

+1

[Paradise City]

Whether Vettel is better than Alonso is not much known. I've seen far more evidence of agile racecraft coupled with speed from Alonso with different teams although Vettel has had his own moments. I'd like to see Vettel to move on to another team to throw a somewhat better light on this question. We may never see that however.

Alonso is an interesting driver. Hamilton, the team encumbent, test veteran yet race rookie rattled him yet he's had various herculean drives delivering sub-par cars to victories and podiums.

[davyboy]

Originally Posted by Paradise City

Whether Vettel is better than Alonso is not much known. I've seen far more evidence of agile racecraft coupled with speed from Alonso with different teams although Vettel has had his own moments. I'd like to see Vettel to move on to another team to throw a somewhat better light on this question. We may never see that however.

He was pretty handy in the BMW and delivered Toro Rosso their first and, to date, only win.

[Lancsbreaker]

Originally Posted by garcon

Ah yes, of course. I had to check the table to confirm that Vettel is winning by minus 29 points over Alonso.

Phew...had me worried there for a moment......I thought I'd wandered into a parallel universe....

[Beetle]

Originally Posted by garcon

There seems to be an awful lot of people who believe Alonso would block the arrival of a driver capable of challenging him. I'm not sure that's the case. In fact I'd say it's Vettel taking the bigger risk if he does team up with Alonso in 2014.

I agree with Ayse - put Vettel and Alonso in the same machinery now (or in a year) and there will only be one winner. However, if Vettel continues to realise his potential, and learns from Alonso about how to win WDCs without the best car, then one day he may be considered Alonso's equal.


And QnickFTW - I think you should try showing a little more respect when you're disagreeing with one of our more, ahem, senior members.

Couldn't agree with you more.

[Spritle]

Originally Posted by Knowlesy

I'd put my house on it.

Make that two houses.

[Marbot]

I wouldn't go that far. I suppose that it depends on what your house is like. I live in a shoe box, on the M25, near Heathrow airport, and it's a kids shoe box, with no lid, with a hole in it............

I know! I know! You 'dream' of living in a shoe box!