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Old 5 Jul 2005, 04:46 (Ref:1347396)   #1
vs346
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Best Sportscar Never to win Le Mans
The other thread about the worst sportscar effort got me thinking about the best sportscar never to win at Le Mans.

I'll state the obvious: The Toyota 020S of 1998-1999.

Curious to hear others.
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 05:02 (Ref:1347398)   #2
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Mercedes CLK series that managed to dominate FIA GT, but didn't succeed in three years of trying at LM. Remember how dominating that was in FIA?

The Ferrari 512's were pretty decent cars too, but alas the 917's were better.
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 05:16 (Ref:1347402)   #3
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I'll go with the TS020, with TS010 in second.
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 06:06 (Ref:1347419)   #4
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What about the Panoz LMP-1, didn't ever really get close but I reckon it was a great car. The Nissan R90 was also pretty good. This years Pescarolo !!!!!
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 07:40 (Ref:1347462)   #5
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The Most beautiful has to be the Ferrari P4.

The Best is probably the Toyota GT1?
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 08:47 (Ref:1347502)   #6
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I have to agree with lj79 and Mal. Toyota have produced some of the quickest and most breathtakingly beautiful closed top cars ever seen at Le Mans. If I've remembered correctly, just one pole in 99, but fastest lap of the race in 92, 93, 98 and 99. And whilst the opposition was better in 92, 93 and 98, 1999 really should have been victory for the GT-One, the best sportscar never to win Le Mans. Unfinished business Toyota?
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 09:18 (Ref:1347518)   #7
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The Toyota GT1

Pescarolo : not... yet !



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If you're looking for wallpapers, pay a visit to this page on Infoscourse... some superb shots by 5 different photographers...
Last edited by Fab; 5 Jul 2005 at 13:51.
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 10:35 (Ref:1347558)   #8
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 10:42 (Ref:1347563)   #9
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Lancia LC-2 (or even at a push, the LC-1) - always rooted for a Porsche when I lived through it, but in retrospect the Lancias were gorgeous cars, the team had a distinctive ethos (largely in hiring quick Italian F1 drivers) and a win for Lancia would have added a welcome degree of variety to the Group C era.
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 10:50 (Ref:1347572)   #10
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Hmmm, I think it was McNish´s Porsche which set fastest lap in 98 but I can not remember. anyway, I also think toyota deserved a win for that GT1.
also, for just the beauty, that Ferrari P4...
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 11:16 (Ref:1347595)   #11
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Any way you lokk at it - definitely the TS010s on 92-93 or the TS020s of 98-99. Glorious cars, on both looks and sounds.


But the word "best" can mean many things. For me, these were the best cars (in terms of performance and looks) never to win Le Mans. Certainly the best looking cars by miles.... (although the R390 Nissan was a looker too - but nothing like good enough, performance-wise).
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 11:21 (Ref:1347600)   #12
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Hmmm, I think it was McNish´s Porsche which set fastest lap in 98 but I can not remember. anyway, I also think toyota deserved a win for that GT1.
also, for just the beauty, that Ferrari P4...
No, it was Brundle in the #28 Toyota - 3:41.809 on lap 86.
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 12:03 (Ref:1347631)   #13
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Ferrari 312/512 - the misfortune to be up against the 917 and then legislated out to let the Matras win.

Oh, and the Mercs in 1955...
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 12:30 (Ref:1347662)   #14
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Lancia LC-2
Welcome to the forum isynge. I agree about the Lancia, my all time favourite Sportscar. Without them, we would have had Porsches (956 / 962) all the way for the years before TWR bought the Jaguar out to play. The LC2 was always blindingly fast in qualifying, and put on great early showings, but getting through 24 hours was not a strong point. Obviously a biased post, but never mind.
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 12:42 (Ref:1347680)   #15
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We're all biased in one way or another!
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 12:51 (Ref:1347687)   #16
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> Best Sportscar Never to win Le Mans

Jaguar XJ13?
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 15:37 (Ref:1347900)   #17
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Yes, the Toyota GT1 and the Lancia LC2 are both excellent choices. I'd like to go back further and nominate the 1962-63 Aston Project cars (212, 214 & 215); only 4 built, underdeveloped and underfunded but fast and beautiful at Le Mans.

Oh, yes and I agree that the gorgeous P4 should have won there as well.
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 15:45 (Ref:1347904)   #18
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I think the Astons were the right cars at the wrong time - as with so many Aston programmes (their entire F1 project, for instance). Had they come along circa 1960, on the back of the DBRs, they might've had a real chance... (Mind you my favourite Aston was RHAM-1, not that that ever had any real chance of success )

I would've liked to have seen a Bob Tullius Group 44 Jag win Le Mans, as a kind of two-fingers to Tom Walkinshaw ;P

Other "moral victors" I would've liked to have seen included Alain de Cadenet, whose cars were as good as anyone other than the 936.... the IBEC, which should have been great.... and the Chevron B12-Repco, which on paper could've been a world-beater...

Little argument about the GT-One and I've a massive soft spot for the LC2 but I think it was way off being developed into a winner.
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 15:56 (Ref:1347916)   #19
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Good post, Pete. Yes RHAM 1 - what a beast, but as you say, never a potential winner. Agree about the great Group 44 Jags too, although not necessarily with your reason! Agree too, about de Cadanet!
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 16:21 (Ref:1347939)   #20
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If we're thinking about hopeless but wonderful cars, the Janspeed/ADA TR8 was pretty special!
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 17:27 (Ref:1348000)   #21
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Originally Posted by Fab
The Toyota GT1

Pescarolo : not... yet !
Stop with teasing Michelin, please !

I fully agree with the GT-One. I'd like to add the Toyota TS 010 and the Sauber Mercedes C11.
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 20:22 (Ref:1348170)   #22
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That Audi R8 deserves to win Le Mans sometime soon, but yer never know... erm... it is still April 2000 isn't it?
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 20:31 (Ref:1348186)   #23
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The de Cadenet Ford which was Lola based! The Lola T70 and the T600 would also be on my list.

The Nimrod Aston Martins were cool as well.
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 20:33 (Ref:1348188)   #24
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If we're thinking about hopeless but wonderful cars, the Janspeed/ADA TR8 was pretty special!
That car was a pile of junk!
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Old 5 Jul 2005, 20:35 (Ref:1348194)   #25
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Good post, Pete. Yes RHAM 1 - what a beast, but as you say, never a potential winner. Agree about the great Group 44 Jags too, although not necessarily with your reason! Agree too, about de Cadanet!
..along with the Gipfast special the Aston Martins were cool
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