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12 Nov 2019, 01:02 (Ref:3940070) | #1 | |
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STEWARDS REPORT RE PENSKE ENGINE
The Penske penalties have been mentioned in both the Bathurst and Sandown race threads, but as the issues straddle both threads I considered it advantageous to start a separate thread.
Attached is the Stewards Report on the issue' I commend it to your reading as there has been a lot of ill-informed comment in social media. https://www.cams.com.au/docs/default...rsn=81f5ebfc_2 On the bottom of page 1 it notes the maximum allowed valve lift is 0.710 inches. The highest measurement on the Penske engine was 0.7135 inches. The difference is 0.0035 inches. This is only 0.5% out. Surely an acceptable tolerance, particularly as there is some ambiguity over measurement procedures. I note they still use inches whereas the rest of us went metric long ago. Three interesting comments by the Stewards half way down page4: The engine had trouble with water vapour being emitted from the oil tank. "the possibility that that the issue had some bearing on the valve lift COULDN'T be dismissed" After the Technical Department ran the engine it did not exceed the mandated maximum power. "There was NO demonstrated performance advantage from the Maximum Valve Lift exceedance". In the light of these three statements I ask what is all the fuss about? |
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12 Nov 2019, 02:03 (Ref:3940077) | #2 | |
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The fuss is about RBR and the holden biased media trying to bully Scotty and Roger Penske out of supercars so that they can win.
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12 Nov 2019, 02:10 (Ref:3940080) | #3 | |
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The figure of 0.71 inches includes a tolerence.
An interesting point is within the DJRTP submission. The measuring technique used by CAMS is prescribed and appears to have shortcomings - atleast going by the submission below from djrtp. DJRTP engine builder measured lift at 0.706". - The build sheet for the Q Engine demonstrates that the valve lift had been measured as within spec before the Bathurst Event; - Because the ESD prescribes a procedure for measuring valve lift, the issue is not a simple question of the valve lift measurement but rather it is the measurement using that specific procedure; - There are shortcomings in the specified procedure because a ‘foot’ or plate on the indicator shaft will mean that the indicator shaft will not be on the same axis as the valve stem; - Before this issue was discovered, DJRTP measured its own valve lift using an analogue instrument which did not have the “foot” at the bottom of the indicator shaft. Nor did Supercars Technical personnel regularly use the Mitutoyo 432-492B digital indicator. Therefore, what has been discovered is the result of a change in circumstance. Anyway blah, blah, life ban, million dollar fines, how dare they smile ever again, blah, blah. |
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12 Nov 2019, 02:34 (Ref:3940084) | #4 | |
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It appears to be simply about trying to hang DJRTP on anything they can, any which way they can.
Possibly to artificially create 'interest' in the series, or artificially create a series 'bad guy' / nemesis, or maybe show the other teams (that) anyone getting too many favourable results (other than 888) will be micro-scrutinised to the Nth degree. It might well have something to do with this rumor, too: Hopefully the full truth will wash out in due course. |
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12 Nov 2019, 03:27 (Ref:3940089) | #5 | ||
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Interesting, they did a number of power runs and stopped beucase they expereinced the same issue as at the track.
I wonder, what would happen if they lunched the engine on the dyno whilst doing this?? I'm wondering what else they're going to come up with.... |
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It's all about speed! Hot, nasty bad-ass speed!! Velociraptor Performance Industries |
12 Nov 2019, 04:32 (Ref:3940096) | #6 | |
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Triple Eight boss Roland Dane responds to Scott McLaughlin's 'toxic' claim
https://wwos.nine.com.au/motorsport/...2-a967134153aa |
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'We've paid the price': Stop calling us cheats all-conquering and highly controversial Ford Mustang |
12 Nov 2019, 04:48 (Ref:3940098) | #7 | ||
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Will Supercars be happy when both Penske and McLaughlin walk away, coz that is what potentially could happen with this short sighted behaviour
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I reserve the right to arm bears |
12 Nov 2019, 07:04 (Ref:3940104) | #8 | ||
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Quote:
Agree with you Terry, this looks like a complete fit up to me! |
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12 Nov 2019, 07:10 (Ref:3940106) | #9 | ||
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Quote:
The inlet and exhaust valve lift is regularly checked by Supercars Technical personnel. Indeed, the valve lift on the DJRTP’s engines had been checked approximately 10 times this season, including on the Q Engine, with no issue observed. So presumably there was correlation between Supercars measurements and Mosquips before Bathurst. The Q motor was different after Bathurst because... Last edited by djr81; 12 Nov 2019 at 07:22. |
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12 Nov 2019, 07:59 (Ref:3940115) | #10 | ||||
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Quote:
Quote:
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Supercars isn't the sport. The sport is motor racing. |
12 Nov 2019, 09:47 (Ref:3940136) | #11 | ||
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More tellingly why has the team not appealed ? If there are questions surely they would,they must have access to some pretty smart legal brains
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12 Nov 2019, 10:03 (Ref:3940137) | #12 | |
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12 Nov 2019, 11:32 (Ref:3940147) | #13 | |
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Appeal what? They're not disputing that the valve lift was too much. As with many rules in motorsport it's irrelevant if performance was enhanced or not. However if the dyno tests had shown the engine making more power I'm sure the punishment would have been more severe.
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12 Nov 2019, 11:49 (Ref:3940152) | #14 | ||
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Maybe they were told if they appealed and lost, they would be excluded from the event. Better to cut your losses and keep the win.
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What if there were no hypothetical questions? |
12 Nov 2019, 13:05 (Ref:3940159) | #15 | |
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13 Nov 2019, 03:55 (Ref:3940301) | #16 | |
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Wouldn't that require the engine to be resealed. If I remember correctly (haven't time check now) Todd Kelly explained something to that extent.
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13 Nov 2019, 06:11 (Ref:3940309) | #17 | ||
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Quote:
The spec sheet that Supercars generated for the engine before qualifying was withing the limits. The engine was then changed because it was dropping water into the combustion chambers. Supercars has confirmed that they could only do 2 runs on the Dyno before getting water vapour present, and the engine produced no more than the specified power. Was the minute increase in lift caused by the overheating? Why do Supercars measurements differ between sealing the engine and breaking their own seals to re-open it? Why would the specs have changed? Looks like Supercars didn't like what happened at Bathurst and set about a witch hunt to try and disqualify DJR. Seems as stupid as it just brings the whole sport into disrepute and damages their own brand. |
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13 Nov 2019, 07:27 (Ref:3940315) | #18 | |
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Yep - Supercars have made a complete mess of the series this year, and this Q engine folly appears to be the icing on the cake.
It might net them an easy $30k for the wine fund, but at what cost to the series and their own brand? |
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13 Nov 2019, 07:36 (Ref:3940319) | #19 | |
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Roland Dane and RBR have introduced a toxic culture into pit-lane and supercars need to address this very quickly.
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13 Nov 2019, 07:38 (Ref:3940321) | #20 | |||
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Listening to the Below The Bonnet podcast is interesting as the lads ring an engine builder - everyone who is sceptical should hear that call. I had limited understanding before I heard it and a mass of questions afterwards. Disclaimer: I'm about the category, rather than individual teams and my feelings would not change irrespective of the team caught out |
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Tranquillity - What happens inside Shane's race car. Chaos - What happens outside Jamie's race car. |
13 Nov 2019, 20:02 (Ref:3940465) | #21 | |
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13 Nov 2019, 21:28 (Ref:3940482) | #22 | |
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Indeed; however the main point being missed is DJRTP are currently a soft target, in that they will readily pay fines for trivial and other matters at this stage in the game.
Anyone else, without a Bathurst win and a Championship and.a Teams' championship to risk, would challenge/appeal/litigate against such nonsense. |
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13 Nov 2019, 21:38 (Ref:3940483) | #23 | ||
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Can other teams appeal a decision?
For example, Barry Ryan was quite animated about Penske retaining the Bathurst win. Roland has been, by his standards, rather quiet throughout. Is Penske his exit strategy? |
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Tranquillity - What happens inside Shane's race car. Chaos - What happens outside Jamie's race car. |
14 Nov 2019, 01:23 (Ref:3940503) | #24 | ||
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Roland is being quiet because he and some mates want the value of Supercars to drop.
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Supercars isn't the sport. The sport is motor racing. |
14 Nov 2019, 03:36 (Ref:3940508) | #25 | ||
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