ERC Holland Results

[Audi S1]

Results after 3 heats and leading into finals for the Brits:

Div 1
Doran on Pole for C Final top Brit!
Evans 22nd
Proctor 27th
Bell 29th
Binks 33rd
Out of 41 Div 1 Cars

Div 2
Tohill 3rd on gird for A Final
Simpson DNF

Div1a
Bell 26th out of 36 cars

Other news, Jernberg gone to Hospital after 2nd heat crash, big crash in 3rd heats with Anne and Doran, hope Doran can make the final.

[the learner]

Doran just won c final

[:) RallyX]

Pat is 12th overall, could have been hirer if B final was run

[B Friendly]

According to the ERC website he finished 11th.

[shhh]

Good day for Pat congrats. Here is the footage of his crash with Olivier Anne in Heat 3.
http://www.motorsportmad.com/view/55...and-anne-crash

[The Fiddler]

Heard that derek was 3rd in A final. congrats to derek.

[fullcircle]

Bermingrud had a huge accident and has a broken leg. Finals of Division 1 cancelled due to the track being unsafe

[shhh]

Here is Bermingrud's serious accident in the B Final. Morten suffered a broken leg and then the other drivers refused to the race in the A final. A sad end to what was a good weekend's racing. http://www.motorsportmad.com/view/55...rud-huge-crash

[WJM]

Thank you very much for those clips Shhh.
Bermingrud was not far off the start but still the impact was huge, very scary. I was also right there when Jernberg crashed, my hard beated a few times extra pfff. It's been a long time since I've seen so many very hard crashes in one day. I hope everybody will be okay.

Still, I'm not happy about the strike. The track has been exactly like this for as long as I remember (which is long!), but suddenly it's so unsafe? At least be a man and park your car, instead of insulting the huge crowd with a procession.

[fullcircle]

Concrete walls and Rallycross cars do NOT mix. Ask Bjorn Skogstad and ask him if he still gets problems with his neck from Germany 15 years ago. Look at Glenn Voie's accident a few years ago at the Dutch ERC - nothing has been done since then.

"The track has been exactly like this for as long as I remember" How can this possibly make it right?? The circuit was built when DAF's were quick - they probably not as quick as Division 2 cars are in 2008. The circuit has to move with the times and the drivers obviously think so. They were justified in doing what they were doing and if Holland wants a round next year they are going to have to listen

[The Fiddler]

to me it seems that safety was low on a list of priorities. maybe with all the crashes that happened, the safety will be reviewed for next year.

[WJM]

Originally Posted by fullcircle

"The track has been exactly like this for as long as I remember" How can this possibly make it right?? The circuit was built when DAF's were quick - they probably not as quick as Division 2 cars are in 2008. The circuit has to move with the times and the drivers obviously think so. They were justified in doing what they were doing and if Holland wants a round next year they are going to have to listen

If they think it's too dangerous they should not compete. The division 1 cars have been the same speed for about 20+ years now, and all the time the layout has been like this. Deciding to go on a strike mid-race was not the correct place, time and method. There are 363 other days in the year to address problems, without duping the 10000 spectators.

[CS1]

[quote=WJM]If they think it's too dangerous they should not compete.[I][quote=WJM]

Thats exactly what they did!

Originally Posted by WJM

The division 1 cars have been the same speed for about 20+ years now, and all the time the layout has been like this. Deciding to go on a strike mid-race was not the correct place, time and method. There are 363 other days in the year to address problems, without duping the 10000 spectators.

I think you are missing the point. If someone had been killed in the A final would you have still felt duped?

[WJM]

Originally Posted by CS1

Thats exactly what they did!

They did compete, they drove practise, qualifying and the finals too!

I think you are missing the point. If someone had been killed in the A final would you have still felt duped?

Noone got killed this weekend. If the track was safe enough for the qualifying heats, it was safe enough for the finals.

Please do not misundestand me. I'm not saying that the track is very safe, nor am I saying that the drivers do not have a point demanding some changes. I can fully understand this and support this. The point I was trying to make is that there are different ways to getting what you want. And in my opinion this was not the correct way. My remark was about the "how" not about the "why".

[HCForums]

I feel bad for the fans and the Eurocircuit. Earlier this year the license of the circuit was extended by another four years after an inspection of the FIA safety commission. Then there was superstar Marcus Gronholm. Andréas Eriksson asked the circuit if they wanted Marcus. Eurocircuit said yes and they helped pay the budget to run the world champion this weekend. It should have been a classic with that many competitive cars and I was sure that the A-Final was going to be something that we hadn't seen in years. Sadly I was right.

There are certain places on the circuit that are indeed dangerous and that could be safer. But don't tell me all these incidents that happened were caused by an unsafe track. There was a lot of rough driving and even sometimes the drivers managed to miss the red flags. I don't want to put the blame on anyone but if they wanted to make a statement to the FIA they should not have done it on the Eurocircuit. I can understand most of the accidents. When you line five cars up alongside each other and they know its hard to pass anywhere other then T1 on lap one then there's gonne be trouble. I think that's why they introduced the joker lap sometime ago (can anyone explain to me what's the reason behind it, only just found about it some months ago).Jos Kuypers (winner of the B-Final) also was furious about the others not wanting to race and questioned how it could be possible that they made the decisions. Once again I'm not putting the blame on anyone but I'm sure that there is going to be a lot of talk after this. I just hope that all the first time visitors this year will also make their return next year.

Here's the spot where Morten crashed.

[fullcircle]

Here's the spot where Morten crashed.

[/QUOTE]

Well i think this picture sums it up perfectly. The accident wouldnt have happened if the eurocircuit had decided to replace the bank with a big gravel trap (similar to the outside of the first corner). We have all seen how these immovable objects cause huge damage to rallycross cars not to mention drivers. Why didnt the circuit owners listen??

On the subject of red flags not being seen then it seems to me the marshalls posts are obviously incorrectly positioned or are too far apart.

As a certain driver said the rallycross cars have evolved and they are very closely matched and this combination results in close racing and cars arriving at corners at the same time. Circuits have a responsibility to evolve aswell and they should have the spectators and drivers interests as their top priority

[Non stop]

A big congrats to Derek on making a Podium finish in Holland - a 1st for the Paddys in ERC (i think!). Well worth the trip over to see. Not often you see tears from his ole fella and DC watching in the stand!!!. Superb driving by him all weekend, and just what he needed after the usual euro boys bumper cars antics on Saturday. Hear's to many more of them!!

Well done again!!

[chunder]

Seems to me that looking at the pictures I ahve seen there was a huge amount of damage there in holland this weekend.

Coox had a big roll and Isachsen had some big damage also,

And from what I could see just abotu every car int eh Finals had panel damage.

I think really that Valkenswaard as about at the limit for these cars, there is only one line and you always get a lot of damage there.

Circuits lined with concrete and Armco are not a great idea and that marshal posts is a joke, just to teh right and one the line where cars are doing 100mph.

Everyone knows that in rallycross the majroty of contact take plaace after the start, and here we have a huge mound!!

If Lydden can get rid of theirs, then how come this place keeps its round year after year! Genius!
And before you all start I realise Lydden has its problems too with the tyre wall being close in front of a solid bank off Chessons!

[HCForums]

Originally Posted by fullcircle

As a certain driver said the rallycross cars have evolved and they are very closely matched and this combination results in close racing and cars arriving at corners at the same time. Circuits have a responsibility to evolve aswell and they should have the spectators and drivers interests as their top priority

Maybe there also should be a look at the rules. When you line five cars up next to each other everyone has a chance to win, even the cars that don't handle well in the corners but have the HP to get into T1 first. Its very difficult to pass on the circuit so drivers are obviously gonne give it their best going into T1.

[zac510]

Don't forget Jernberg got taken in the ambulance for more attention too (after crash in the 2nd heat, I didn't see the crash).
I was standing immediately over from the Bermingrud accident and it was definitely a big accident. But I saw the car on the truck after and it stood up very well and it didn't look like the cabin was damaged, the force was broken by the front of the car and the tyre barrier. His broken leg might have only been from the g-forces.

After that Hansen, Pailler and that huge Norwegian driver, i think it was Hunsbedt, ran over to the start line (they weren't even in that final) and had everyone in a big conference, then they announced the racing was off.

Bad luck for Evans, he could have been in the C-final too. First heat he was behind Procter. In the 2nd heat he didn't capitalise when lots of drivers were out in the carnage. Eklund tapped him in the 3rd heat and he was out. Eklund wasn't faster than him. I think his single best lap time was still quite good.

And great effort in the C final by Pat, a solid drive with no mistakes! Shame he couldn't race in the B-final.

Anyway, can of worms here but I thought the racing was better in Belgium, the Dutch track was very tight and hard to overtake. Joker lap is good fun even if it isn't 'pure'! Although there were less spectators at Valkenswaard so you could always get a good spot.

[HCForums]

Did they have the joker lap in Belgium?

[rx-guru]

Originally Posted by zac510

Don't forget Jernberg got taken in the ambulance for more attention too (after crash in the 2nd heat, I didn't see the crash).

After that Hansen, Pailler and that huge Norwegian driver, i think it was Hunsbedt, ran over to the start line (they weren't even in that final) and had everyone in a big conference, then they announced the racing was off.

Anyway, can of worms here but I thought the racing was better in Belgium, the Dutch track was very tight and hard to overtake. Joker lap is good fun even if it isn't 'pure'! Although there were less spectators at Valkenswaard so you could always get a good spot.

Jernberg told me later that, as he sits so far back in the Fabia, he was not able to see the red flag. I saw that Hunsbedt backed off due to the flags and opened a gap for Jernberg, which Jernberg immediately tried to use for overtaking. But by using all of the kerbs there the Fabia became instable, turned to the right and forced the S40 with him straight into the solid banking.

That "huge Norwegian" (a bald man?) must have been Isachsen, as Hunsbedt was not involved in the decision to go 'Indian file' in the A final, but later respected the decision of his counterparts to do the same then.

IMO this is actually the only argument in favour of the Joker Lap: The drivers will possibly not go with a knife between their teeth into a too tight first corner if they later have a chance to fiddle with the Joker Lap possibility. But especially at Valkenswaard the first corner is so vital…

[Cal Naughton Jr]

All

I raced in Div 1 at the weekend and have raced the track lots of times before, there are various points at all the tracks i have raced on where if you dont do some thing right or some one wont give you space it can cause major accidents or damage.

Yes theses things need to be sorted out over time and with discussions but the whole not racing the A final was more down to the fact that the drivers went and looked whilst morten was in the car and imotions were running high.

We also need to remember that every one was going for broke this weekend to prove they were quicker than Gronholm (it was excellent to see Pat whip his arse, well done!) it was coming all day they were giving less and less room to each other and to me that was were the accidents were caused

there were so many disgusted faces on spectators as the passed us to leave the circuit I felt bad to be assosiated and dissapointed that we had all tried so hard to find the few seconds between us and the top drivers for them to act the way they did.


I would like to say it was great to see so many Brits over there and me and the lads all had a great time over the 2 weekends learnt alot and hopefully if i can get a new turbo sorted be at lydden at the weekend.

cheers

David

[HCForums]

Originally Posted by rx-guru

Jernberg told me later that, as he sits so far back in the Fabia, he was not able to see the red flag. I saw that Hunsbedt backed off due to the flags and opened a gap for Jernberg, which Jernberg immediately tried to use for overtaking. But by using all of the kerbs there the Fabia became instable, turned to the right and forced the S40 with him straight into the solid banking.

That "huge Norwegian" (a bald man?) must have been Isachsen, as Hunsbedt was not involved in the decision to go 'Indian file' in the A final, but later respected the decision of his counterparts to do the same then.

In our newspapers it was reported that Isachsen, Hansen and Pailler decided to not run the finals and the others agreed. Hunsbedt said in the paddock he was not involved in the decision making and heard about it later. And indeed in the video on MotorsportMad you could see various drivers (Hansen, Pailler) going over to the crash scene and it must have been a shocking sight for them.

Jernberg´s crash wasn´t the only red flag incident. Also Dave Van Beers got drilled from behind when the red flag came out and he slowed down. Basically ended his day.

[fullcircle]

Am surprised there has been such little mention of Bermingrud on this thread. Can anyone give an accurate update as to his condition?