early german photos

[stefan]

I've posted a few of my Grandfathers photos - he took them in Germany between 1934 and 1936. There's some great ones of the Avus track. They're at...

http://www.pbase.com/smarjoram/root

Incidentally, is there anything left of the Avus banked curve?

[Stoffer Green]

Well, the banking was there when I was last in Berlin, but that was a few years' ago now. I had just sent a post to the query about Oval Racing to say that Avus should be mentioned, so it's a nice coincidence that you should produce your grandfather's photos which look very interesting, and they are certainly not all of Avus.
I like your other photos too! Though I prefer the Revival meeting to the Festival of Speed.
Some of mine can be found on Aysedasi's website, but I am not allowed to say who the drivers are or where they were at the time, but I think that anyone who looks at these pages will have no difficulty, although Aysedasi's Le Mans followers will scratch their heads a little.

[Vitesse]

Stefan: I think you need to revise those dates!! The top three AVUS pictures are definitely the 1937 Avusrennen. The Maserati is Soffietti, the Auto Union is Rosemeyer and the two Mercedes are Lang (streamliner) and Seaman.

Not sure about the hillclimb pictures, but in the final batch the Auto Union appears to be Stuck in the 1934 Avusrennen. As the others appear to be taken from the same place, they are probably mostly of the Avusrennen Voiturette race, except for that odd streamliner, which, if it is 1934, just might be Siena's Maserati 8CM, for which the race number is AFAIK unknown.

The scoreboard picture is for the high jump at the 1936 Olympics!

Great stuff!! Got any more???

[Aysedasi]

Welcome Stoffer - its about time you joined in the fun.........

[Leif Snellman]

What a wonderful set of pictures!

"Incidentally, is there anything left of the Avus banked curve?"

When I was in Berlin some 10 years ago I visitied the place. As far as I could see there was nothing left of the Nordschleife.

By the way, the first picture in the second row, has of course nothing to do with motorsports. Its the victory ceremony for the High Jump at the Berlin Olympics, 2 August 1936.

[quintin cloud]

stefan there are some excellent photos even the lemans 2001 photos are great

[strad]

This is Rosemeyer I believe at AVUS:

[Leif Snellman]

Originally posted by strad
This is Rosemeyer I believe at AVUS:

I think it rather could be Rosemeyer at the Nürburgring Karussell, possibly at the 1937 Eifelrennen?

[Ray Bell]

I've also just come across some German photos from that era... they were publicity shots used by Auto Union, so I don't know if any of them are in magazines or books at all.

Included is one of the record car with the streamlining on the Autobahn, while there are also photos of motorcycles and their riders.

[Vitesse]

Originally posted by Leif Snellman

I think it rather could be Rosemeyer at the Nürburgring Karussell, possibly at the 1937 Eifelrennen?

I don't think it can be anyone - or anywhere - else! Quite unusual to see a shot from that side of the Karussel though - most are from the inside of the bend.

Ray - I'd be interested to see those! Could you post them here or e-mail me?

New e-mail btw: RichardVitesse@aol.com

[stefan]

Thanks for all the info on the pictures - it's great to find out a bit more about them. I did know that the scoreboard wasn't a motor racing one - I just put it in as an interesting date marker. Unfortunately I haven't got any more.

I reckon the attached picture is the carousel too.

Glad you liked my other photos - I did go to the revival meeting once but found it a bit frustrating not being able to get in the paddock area - I must try and get a press pass somehow. Also I really like the sheer diversity of the cars at the Festival of Speed.

I'd like to see some of the photos Ray has..

[stefan]

Meanwhile I've just added some photos from the Revival meeting...

http://www.pbase.com/smarjoram/root

[Stoffer Green]

Great photos of the Revival Meeting, I guess you were hanging over the fencing to take some of them. You must get a pass next time!

[stefan]

Any idea how?

[Michael M]

Photo # 9 looks like Caracciola's white Alfa 8C2300 Monza, if so, it must be 1932. First impression is in fact hil climb, but I also would not exclude the Nürburgring, which in that time was rather narrow in some places, and allowing also the spectators to come very close to the track. High race numbers are irritating, they gad similar high numbers in the 50's, but have no info about prewar era. Anybody around having entry list of Eifelrennen 1932, or some photos to compare race numbers?
Still work on the others.

[Vitesse]

Michael, I don't think it's Der Ring - look at the trees right on the roadside. Even in the 30s, they wouldn't have planted trees that close to a circuit! It certainly looks like a Monza, but the grille detailing looks unusual - and what is that thing with a square slab radiator?

[FEV]

Incredible pics Stefan, thanks ! I can't help with ID but with Richard, Michael, Ray and Leif you've got an all-star team working on it !

[Ray Bell]

The square slab radiator is an Austin 7 with a pretty trick front suspension. I would also say the Caracciola Alfa is on a hillclimb, but a couple of pics there seem reminiscent of the ones I recently posted her on behalf of Sat... and they were Brno. Did you grandfather go to Brno, stefan?

As for my pics, I'd be happy to post them here, but I'm not asking permission to do so. If anyone wants them to be posted, just ask one of the administrators if I can do that. They have concerns with some members being unable to tolerate the loading time of decent sized pictures... it's a situation that doesn't please me, especially as others have repeatedly asked me to post pics on their behalf, and other issues have made worse.

I won't be asking. But if I get an e.mail from TimD saying it's all right, you will have the pics.

[strad]

Leif;
I knew the name seemed familiar..the when checking for some info from this great site I visit, the light went on...HAHAHAHAHA Great stuff guy, and much appriceated.
Thanks you have often been the ONLY source for some things.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Leif Snellman
What a wonderful set of pictures!

Got to agree with you there, I think many would be delighted to see them...

Its the victory ceremony for the High Jump at the Berlin Olympics, 2 August 1936.

Isn't that the day they announced that the 1940 Olympics were to be held in Tokyo?

[Leif Snellman]

Thanks strad!

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Isn't that the day they announced that the 1940 Olympics were to be held in Tokyo?

No, actually that was on 31 July. Tokio won over Helsinki, 36-27!

[Michael M]

I also think more it's hill climb, also because the driver of the Monza (Rudi?) wears no dust cap, meaning he's on a short ride only. The Ring has been built only a few years before, so they would have cutted all trees during construction work, and there was no time for them to grow. However, if this is really Caracciola it could not be a small local event, but probably one of those counted to the championship. Anybody around having more knowledge about German hill climbing of that era? Freiburg-Schauinsland? Could be.

About posting pictures, believe this is one of the most important detail of a forum covering content like this one. So it would be strange if this needs permission. However, I can understand that posting of several large image files needs considerable transfer time with the result that the thread in question opens very slowly only. Possible solution is quite simple, just change the VB code from "img" to "url", so anybody interested can click such link to load the image, with the non-interested having no disadvantage in loading time of the thread in general.

[Leif Snellman]

Originally posted by Michael M
Photo # 9 looks like Caracciola's white Alfa 8C2300 Monza, if so, it must be 1932.

I should rather say: Paul Pietsch, 1934! Caracciola's 1932 Alfa had a dark radiator, no line on the side.

[paulzinho]

Wow, some great pictures there!! I love seeing photos of the old Nurburgring and Avus I find intriguing!!

[Michael M]

I agree with Robert, the photos # 15-25 must be taken at AVUS 1934. I was rather surprised, but nothing in my archive about AU and AVUS 1934 to compare the style of the somewhat unusual font of the race numbers. However, it’s an A type, it’s wet, and therefore # 42 and # 44 must be AVUS 1934. Historical pictures, the first competition event ever for the Auto Unions!

Now it’s getting more difficult. The car with # 22 has been photographed at the same place, but obviously the road is (more) dry. Without doubt it’s a Maserati, and my first idea was a tipo 8CM. But - only 4 exhaust pipes! So it should be a 4CM, but they looked different. So dropping the exhaust and back to 8CM. There was Nuvolari with his privately entered 8CM (remember, quarrel with Enzo that year), but it’s neither Tazio nor his Maserati. Second 8CM was Lord Howe, but his r/n is known (# 48), and then there was Eugenio Siena with another 8CM. But Siena had no (blond?) moustache, and Taruffi was the first Italian as late as 1949 wearing one of these “newfashioned nonsense hard hats”. And then the # 22, not fitting into the numbering scheme of the FL race, plus the dry - or nearly dry - track. So back again to the voiturette race and Maserati 4CM. Only Maserati driver was Luigi Castelbarco, his 4CM1500 # 1527 comes close, very close, but that cars left the factory only on 8 November 1935...! The car is dark, probably red or green, and the helmet as early as 1934 points to Great Britain. No, it’s not Howe, his 8CM looked different, and as said - 4 exhausts only. Anybody able to offer a solution? May be another year than 1934? Or not AVUS but Eifelrennen??

Then we have the Bugatti with # 2. Obviously white, so most probably German entry. Could be Ernst-Günther Burggaller, Leif lists him with # 2, but are these really race numbers or only internal running numbers? If from Sheldon, you should be careful. And if really race numbers, how could # 22 fit into the scheme? And what about the second Bugatti? Race number 26, also white, for sure Photo taken from the same spot? Hans Simons?

The semi-streamliner with r/n 32 or 52, would fit into the FL race numbering scheme, and hence must be a Maserati 8CM. No info on my side about such a converted Maserati, anybody able to help?

What about the Alfa? Looks for me not like a P3 (btw, which Alfas had been streamliners besides that of Moll?), more like a Monza with exhaust on the left and driver on the right. Paul Pietsch? As far I remember the car was privately owned, hence should be white. Another mystery.

Picture no. 25 looks like an Amilcar, color seems to be white, so could be Willi Briem. Race number seems to have 2 digits.

Also strange is the other semi-streamliner with r/n 8. Low number points to voiturette race, so could this be Theo Fork’s MG K3 Magnette?

So, that’s it for the time being from my side. I have to say, very interesting job, even better than 8W. Whole Saturday morning bust, and my wife's on non-speaking terms now.
My general feeling is that this set of pictures has been taken during AVUS 1934, but the Maseratis still are a mystery. May be I have given some ideas for you to continue the research.

PS: Leif, just read your posting about the Monza and Pietsch. You could be right, but what about the Monza picture from AVUS (see above)?