How would Webber go in a Maclaren?

[RWC]

After years of being subjected to DC's hopelesness i guess we've pretty much all given up on having a real racer in that car.JV and Fissi just aren't 'mercedes men' unfortunately(allthough i still hope against hope)-the one and only thing that keeps DC there.
How do you think Mark webber would go?I say this because he WOULD be good at the mercedes promo stuff-i don't know why i think this..it just makes sense.But most importantly would he deserve the seat?Is he fast enough or is it too early to tell at all?

[mac]

I'm pretty sure he's fast enough. But I think it's a little early to tell. This year may help with that.

Not sure what the relationship with Mark and the bigwigs at Merc is like. I know for a fact that Mark and Norbert Haug did not speak at all between Le Mans 1998 and Christmas 2001.

Mark was pretty ****ed off about being blamed for flipping the Mercs. Having said that, he seems a pretty easy-going lad, and I don't think he'd hold too big a grudge.

[RWC]

Oops!I forgot all about his past mercedes job!But as with all things formula none,things will be 'forgiven'.

[Valve Bounce]

There's ntohing to forgive, really!! Norberg just made a fool of himself and wouldn't accept the design deficiency of the Mercedes that could have killed two drivers. I think he is still too stubborn to accept that he made a mistake and apologise.
As for Mark, well he is finally (hopefully) in a car that might be competitive at some races. I hope he makes his Mark this year in F1 so that his future will be on the rise again with Mercedes.

[GTRMagic]

I reckon Mark in a McLaren Merc would be magical (hows that for alliteration?)

Would show Coulthard what for on occassion... the skills at Minardi involved scraping the rust off in each practice session as there is no testing, how much better would mark be if he ran the car between races??

[Snrub]

I think Mark have little trouble doing better than DC. I'm not so sure he'd have much for Kimi.

I've never understood why McLaren is willing to have mediocre drivers and stick with them. On any other team, if one driver smokes another driver, the 2nd seat becomes open. It seems like it would have been the perfect environment for a guy like Frenzen. Remember how well he did at Jordan after Williams? Imagine if he was in a McLaren! I don't get why JV, Fisi, Irvine, Webber, etc. weren't picked up by McLaren.

[Mr V]

Originally posted by mac
I'm pretty sure he's fast enough. But I think it's a little early to tell.

Don't really know, but, was it too early for Kimi? I think not, i'm sure that Mark could do as gooda job as DC, i'm certain than Kimi can too.

[Yoong Montoya]

Originally posted by Snrub
I've never understood why McLaren is willing to have mediocre drivers and stick with them. On any other team, if one driver smokes another driver, the 2nd seat becomes open.

What about Ferrari?

[mac]

Originally posted by mr v
Don't really know, but, was it too early for Kimi? I think not, i'm sure that Mark could do as gooda job as DC, i'm certain than Kimi can too.

What I was referring to was the fact that he's only had 1 season in a very ordinary car. Kimi jumped straight into a mid-pack team and could show his talents. I'm sure as far as his talent goes, he would handle it quite well. I just don't think we've seen enough of him to make an accurate judgement on how he would perform in a McLaren.

[I Ate Yoko Ono]

I rate Webber at about the same level as DC. Which isn't as insulting as it sounds as DC has won several GPs over the years.

The problem is anyone else driving the same car won a lot more.

I'm sure MW could get a few wins as DC has over the years driving the best cars but I don't see him as having the same level of natural talent as Kimi.

[Mark Webber]

I see Mark as a real future WDC the car is the only missing link I rate him as high as Kimmi Ralf RB & jpm he just needs time & the car to show what he is capable of

[Valve Bounce]

Originally posted by Mark Webber
I see Mark as a real future WDC the car is the only missing link I rate him as high as Kimmi Ralf RB & jpm he just needs time & the car to show what he is capable of

I suspect that you may be a Mark Webbr admirer. This year it all boils down to how good the Jaguar is in relation to BAR, Toyota, Sauber, and Renault. I expect it to be better than Minardi and Jordan (there I go again, making a fool of myself), and if the new Cosworth is really good as well as reliable, then Mark just might have the equipment to show his ability against the other teams mentioned above.

[The_Z_Man]

Originally posted by RWC
After years of being subjected to DC's hopelesness i guess we've pretty much all given up on having a real racer in that car.JV and Fissi just aren't 'mercedes men' unfortunately(allthough i still hope against hope)-the one and only thing that keeps DC there.

Says you. Ron Dennis says different, I can even bore you with a link or two, if you so desire. Now, if you have evidence that DC is just there for PR work, please produce it.

Originally posted by RWC
How do you think Mark webber would go?I say this because he WOULD be good at the mercedes promo stuff-i don't know why i think this..it just makes sense.But most importantly would he deserve the seat?Is he fast enough or is it too early to tell at all?

Maybe he would do better, maybe he'll do worse.

The_Z_Man

[The_Z_Man]

Originally posted by Snrub
I think Mark have little trouble doing better than DC. I'm not so sure he'd have much for Kimi.

Given the fact that this year was more or less a wash between DC and KR, that sentence doesn't makes much sense to me.

Originally posted by Snrub
I've never understood why McLaren is willing to have mediocre drivers and stick with them.

That's maybe because from within, with millions of dollars at stake, they have a different assessment of a driver's worth than from an armchair.

Originally posted by Snrub
On any other team, if one driver smokes another driver, the 2nd seat becomes open. It seems like it would have been the perfect environment for a guy like Frenzen. Remember how well he did at Jordan after Williams? Imagine if he was in a McLaren! I don't get why JV, Fisi, Irvine, Webber, etc. weren't picked up by McLaren.

You could write to ron.dennis@mclaren.com and ask politely.

The_Z_Man

[Sodemo]

He'd go, nnnnneeeoowwwww!

[Jordi]

He'd go as fast as Jacques.

[Mr V]

Z-man, i commend your defending of DC, but how is it that, dispite never being in a car less than third best in 8 1/2 seasons (and 5 1/2 of those seasons were in a car no less than second best) that he has only managed 12 wins?

[RWC]

Ah,Zman i was wondering when you would turn up and try to defend DC.Thanks all the same but no thanks.Your about the only one left you know-and there is a reason for that....We all got sick to death of him telling us how great he is.

No,don't bother with the ron dennis quotes-it's all PR BS anyway....Ron knows just as well as anyone that a good third of the drivers on the grid would smoke DC.He's just there to do the PR work that the fast fins are pretty much useless at

[BootsOntheSide]

For now, DC is teaching Kimi a lot behind the scenes, and this can continue for 2003. However, if Kimi beats DC that really should be the signal for a replacement driver to come in and challenge Kimi. I think someone like Justin Wilson would do better than Webber though. People here over-rate Webber, he only looked really good at Minardi because Yoong's so bad, Alonso made a bigger impression in fighting with other teams, and Mark should have breezed to the F3000 title, when instead Justin did.

[Mark Webber]

I really think you under rate webber Boots
Alonso did a good job in mindari but webber did a better job
Wilson well we shall see and yes young did less than impress
but webber drove his own year with great results you can not say he didn't
webber was fighting the same cars as Alonso did
the f3000 title I agree he should have won that but I also remember he was taken out
a few times to that's not a excues thats just racing
yes webber has a few fans here but for good reason
don't judge to soon

[The_Z_Man]

Originally posted by mr v
Z-man, i commend your defending of DC

Thanks.

Originally posted by mr v
but how is it that, dispite never being in a car less than third best in 8 1/2 seasons (and 5 1/2 of those seasons were in a car no less than second best) that he has only managed 12 wins?

One has to always root for the top dog ? Ron Dennis and Co who work with him and pay him millions of $ think that he is doing a good job. If it's good enough for them, it's good enough for me. When RD will find someone better and replace him, I'll bow to his decision. So far, it appears that he hasn't.

The_Z_Man

[Damon]

DC is there because he helps sell sponsoship space to UK Businesses and is a solid circulator, nothing more. He's good with the PR stuff, generally not saying anything out of turn, what team boss looking for a safe second driver wouldn't want him? DC sure as hell isn't there for his race winning credentials however, as they simply don't add up.

Similarly Mark, try to look past your support for your driver and at the actual performances. He lucked into 5th at Aus because he was far enough back to begin with, to aviod the first corner mayhem and also achieved...??? I'm not saying he's a bad driver but really did nothing out of the ordinary in his first year.

[The_Z_Man]

Originally posted by RWC
Ah,Zman i was wondering when you would turn up and try to defend DC.

Well, wonder no more.

Originally posted by RWC
Thanks all the same but no thanks.Your about the only one left you know-and there is a reason for that....

And ? Am I supposed to join the crowd or be frightened ? That's o,ly makes the challenge much more interesting.

Originally posted by RWC
We all got sick to death of him telling us how great he is.

Maybe your buddies and you could do your delicate stomach a favor and not listen to the guy, how's that

Originally posted by RWC
No,don't bother with the ron dennis quotes-it's all PR BS anyway....

Sure. Now, where is your evidence. I'm able to back up what I say. I would like to see if you can do the same. Handwaving won't do.

Originally posted by RWC
Ron knows just as well as anyone that a good third of the drivers on the grid would smoke DC.

He does ? Just for my information, is it messy inside RD's head ? Do his thoughts appear as text before your eyes or voices and your head ?

Originally posted by RWC
He's just there to do the PR work that the fast fins are pretty much useless at

You keep repeating that like a mantra, could you now support your claim ? BTW, in 2002, PR agent 1, fast finn* 0.

The_Z_Man

* I have nothing against Kimi, I'm just making a point.

[The_Z_Man]

Originally posted by Damon
DC is there because he helps sell sponsoship space to UK Businesses and is a solid circulator, nothing more.

Why would UK businesses would want to be associated to the loser that he is supposed to be ?

Originally posted by Damon
He's good with the PR stuff, generally not saying anything out of turn, what team boss looking for a safe second driver wouldn't want him?

He is also good enough to beat MH and MS from time to time.

Originally posted by Damon
DC sure as hell isn't there for his race winning credentials however, as they simply don't add up.{...}

How do you know ? You to has access to McLaren human resource department ? Then again, anything I way can backed up by evidence, so far the opposition just has to offer wishful thinking.

The ball is in your court guys.

The_Z_Man

[Damon]

as mr v has already said, 12 wins from 8 years in one the best cars on the grid simply isn't good enough for a self aclaimed potential world champion.

British businesses do like to be asociated with a high, profile, highly technical sport like F1 and as Coulthard is the most high profile British driver currently in F1, they latch on to him.

As long as you always take PR speak as written you will fail to see what is actually going on. There is no way any team would bad mouth its own driver in public (although this has happened from time to time with DC), but that doesn't say much for what's happening behind closed doors.

Many British fans would love DC to succeed but have simply got bored of waiting.