The quality of Indycar drivers

[marcostraz]

I was thinking about a question to all Indycar fans...this winter (especially when there was the fear of seeing only 18/20 cars on the grid) there was much talk of good drivers currently without a ride...drivers like Rahal, Servia, Tracy, Junqueira, Hildebrand, Manning, Scheckter, I would add Bourdais, are without a wheel...but honestly, Duno excluded, which of the other 23 drivers on the grid there should leave for these unemployed drivers? I have the impression that, whilw we complained a little too much, maybe we have not noticed that, among who is in and who is out, the quality of IndyCar drivers is very high...

[icemachine]

I wouldn't say very high - definitely higher than some recent years, but if Mario, Mario and Hideki were replaced by any of the drivers you mentioned, it would improve the field further.

[marcostraz]

Originally Posted by icemachine

I wouldn't say very high - definitely higher than some recent years, but if Mario, Mario and Hideki were replaced by any of the drivers you mentioned, it would improve the field further.

But Moraes is growing and Romancini has done very well in his Indy Lights debut...I think they are good enough...and also I think Indycar has to make a concession to the Japanese... if I had to choose between the two Japanese, for example, I "eliminate" Sato...

[icemachine]

I would rate Sato's racecraft above Mutoh, Moraes and Romancini are doing well for pay drivers, but the reason they are racing has far more to do with the cheques than the talent they bring.

[marcostraz]

Originally Posted by icemachine

Moraes and Romancini are doing well for pay drivers, but the reason they are racing has far more to do with the cheques than the talent they bring.

Yes, I agree with you, but I think also that they have proved on track to be not only driver with cheques...

[JagtechOhio]

Since you're asking for opinions...

Too early to judge Mario Moraes, he showed flashes of quality last year.
I'd rate Conway the same.

Who knows about Romancini? After a season in IICS, maybe we will.

Mutoh? Not my hero. Sato needs some races too, I still say he will be very competitive (like 5th overall).

Marcostraz, in a perfect world, it would be great to see every one of the drivers you mentioned. We get what we got, which ain't bad.

[courageous]

Thing is, the worst employed drivers are always going to be less skilled than the best unemployed drivers.
Pay drivers are a fact - always have been, always will (there are several in F1 once again).

It would be a better comparison to look at the quality of drivers from different time periods and argue for instance that the top drivers are not on the same level as it used to be but the rear of the grid has improved significantly.

I reckon any one of the drivers on the 2010 grid could have been an Indy 500 contender back in say '99.

[marcostraz]

Originally Posted by JagtechOhio

We get what we got, which ain't bad.

Yes, I agree with you...

[Dutton]

I'd say the talent level in the IRL exceeds the standing of the series. Yes, there are some less than great drivers, but there are plenty of very good drivers in the series. Let us remember the IRL is not really significant at all, anywhere: I am quite frankly just relishing the fact that I still get to see all the races live in Canada, for every year I expect this to stop (and I wouldn't if I didn't have the TV package which includes TSN2).

Duno is the only driver that should just absolutely not be on the track, IMO. However, she is not to be relevant for this thread. My answer, then, is none should leave (as such). There are plenty of better drivers out there than some of the IRL field, but if you replaced them with the better available drivers there would still be better ones out there than those newly in.

We shouldn't forget there is a reason that the lower standard/paying drivers are in the seats they are in: it is because they are the kind of drivers that are picked by those lower standard teams. The better drivers tend to not want to be in poor teams, as a general rule. It is a bit of self-regulating system, to a point, in general terms (that is, there are always exceptions but the general situation remains true to form).

[Jay]

Compared to the level of talent throughout the IRL's history, this is probably one of the better years. Compared to the talent in F1 or CART in the late-90s, it's pretty average to crap.

There used to be drivers we could call the best in the world, and they would display their incredible talents on the track - driving some of the fastest cars in the world, with close to 1000HP, within inches of each other for lap after lap. F1 teams took notice, and regularily snapped them up. Guys like Zanardi, Moore, Montoya, Vasser, Da Matta, Tracy...never mind guys like Villeneuve, Fittipaldi, Mansell, etc. in the early-mid 90s, were on a completely different level compared to today's drivers. In comparison, today's drivers look like complete amateurs - and I don't see any F1 team owners scouting the Indycar ranks for talent as happened in the CART days. They recognize that Indycar has become a second rate autoracing series, with very average drivers.

Looking down the finishing order of last weekend's race, there are some names that have been great in the past, but our probably past that now - Franchitti, Castroneves...maybe that's it. I've never rated Kanaan that highly. There are some younger guys with some talent - Hunter-Reay, Wheldon, Matos, Andretti Jr, Conway... but again, compared to the CART days, they're at best very average drivers. Wilson and Power are probably better than most on the grid, but haven't always had the best equipment, so we've never really seen their true potentials. The rest? More average drivers that likely would never be winning races in CART.

No doubt part of the problem is guys like me that are always looking back to the CART days - I realise those are over, and will likely never happen again. You have to start somewhere, and that's where the IRL is...somewhere.

[Belatti]

I fail to see why Pechito Lopez management could not arrange an Indy seat after the USF1 bullsh*t.

If he proved well at Indy, finding an F1 seat for 2011 would have been easier, or I am wrong?

Can happen that F1 just plainly dont take Indy drivers?

[Silk Cut Jaguar]

Having an Indycar seat would have probably made getting an F1 drive even harder. The series just isn't regarded in European circles as anything worth considering.

Diluted depth of talent when it was two series and da Matta and Bourdais (although I don't think either had a fair shake at it) flopping have put people off using it as a place to gauge if people are worth hiring.

[Yannick]

Dario Franchitti surely is as much F1 material as his youngster colleagues from his DTM days are (Montoya and Magnussen at Mercedes, Fisichella and Alexander Wurz at Alfa).
If F1 were a series including ovals, Scott Dixon and Tony Kanaan surely are F1 level drivers as well. Helio and Paul Tracy both count in this category as well.
Then, there are those who have been in F1 ... Justin Wilson, Ryan Briscoe, EJ Viso. When they had F1 drives, they just were in the wrong kind of cars. Sato has yet to prove he's a good Indycar driver. Wait, make that IZOD Indycar driver. ;-)

Ryan Hunter-Reay would have deserved an attempt at F1 as would Sam Hornish Jr., but it didn't happen. I guess Sam is in the same league as Montoya or even better so he would have done quite well - in the right car.

[BootsOntheSide]

Remember that the IRL is still more oval-dominated than CART ever was in the era when F1 teams seriously looked at it. Also, Montoya and Bourdais won F3000 before going to America; these days the top GP2 drivers usually go straight into F1.

I think the list of unemployed drivers given earlier is a little CART-centric, people like Junquiera and Tracy have never really proven themselves in the IRL. Rahal and Servia are probably the biggest losses, and don't forget Ed Carpenter. It's inevitable in a recession that a few people will be there on funding rather than talent. Romanici is unproven, but most of the other guys aren't totally out of their depth.

[mz2k]

Originally Posted by Yannick

Ryan Hunter-Reay would have deserved an attempt at F1 as would Sam Hornish Jr., but it didn't happen. I guess Sam is in the same league as Montoya or even better so he would have done quite well - in the right car.

A younger Hunter-Reay would have been a decent F1 candidate. But Hornish would have been a joke. Despite his stellar IRL career, all of his wins came on ovals. Granted, the IRL only had a couple of road races in the latter part of his IRL years, but I don't believe he won any road races while competing in Atlantics of FF2000.

Hornish is also definitely not in the same league as Montoya. JPM won in CART, F1, Indy 500, and NASCAR- a much better resume than Hornish.

[Jacques Rabbit]

The quality of drivers this season is very high for IndyCar; in world-wide terms, it's not particularly impressive, but as far as Indy drivers go, it's beyond satisfactory.

Ryan Hunter-Reay in F1? Nah. He was part of the Red Bull Driver Search to find a U.S. American F1 driver...he was beaten by Scott Speed and A.J. Allmendinger. Speed never amounted to much in F1, and Allmendinger never made it. So I don't think RHR was quite that good.

The drivers on the grid, Duno aside, that I don't have much faith in are Romancini and Antinucci. Sarah Fisher should not be racing on road courses (so I'm glad she isn't; I really like her, of course). Howard and Mutoh would be next to go for me. Marco Andretti's toward the bottom; he's never reached his full potential and he's had a lot of time to do it. I think working for his father is killing him, but it's too late to leave now. There was a time when other teams wanted him, but not anymore. Moraes was easily most improved over the course of 2009 so I'll give him one more shot, and I really think Viso can get the job done with his new team. Another driver, Mike Conway, has really improved and shown me he belongs, when early in 2009 I was hoping to see him gone. Of course, Ryan Briscoe used to be in that category for me, too.

Simona de Silvestro and Takuma Sato are two superb rookies, in my mind, so they're great to have.

Talent-wise, of course, there are few on the grid I'd rather have in my car than Oriol ServiÃ*. He's never really been a guy to go out and win races, but he always has a good run, and I think if he'd just get a proper car, he'd start to win. Someone needs to sign him while he's still young enough to be competitive.

[JagtechOhio]

Agreed with every single word of that.

Simona will really make some noise this year. I had Sato pegged for fifth on road courses, perhaps I was too optimistic? There will be a lot of good racing to watch.